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EBGizmo
Technical Contributor
Posts: 691
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia
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 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Just returned from a trip to Bundy - 100% highway. I got 503km with my 65 litre tank before I got a dead pedal - my personal best! Last record was 460 highway/city. Very happy indeed! |
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Walker
Technical Contributor
Age:37
Posts: 8581
Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ToranaGuy wrote: | IF the lpg install is done properly, little power is lost, and economy is close as well.
The newest gas systems are better than the older systems, especially those 20yo systems in rusting hulks that have poor performance. The best option for performance & economy is LPG Injection, but it's still rather costly compared to a more traditional " slap a mixer ontop the throttle body/carby " type conversion.
I have LPGI on my EB, done about 100,000 kms with it now, and i can't fault the hardware. In the EB alone, i've saved way in excess of $12,000 in fuel costs running on lpg, then there is my other car's on lpg as well. That's money i've put towards my house.
I'm Pro LPG.
Cheers
ToranaGuy |
It's not about the man doing the install, it's about the right equipment to suit your application.
The systems of today aren't much different to 20+ years ago (Except for injected LPG).
The cars of today are much more fuel efficient, an XF with LPG will still get the same economy today as what it did 20 years ago.
My AU 5.0 got 515 with half city and half highway, my XD with 302 C used to get 350 max highway. |
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ToranaGuy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:26
Posts: 446
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Werribee VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Walker wrote: |
It's not about the man doing the install, it's about the right equipment to suit your application.
The systems of today aren't much different to 20+ years ago (Except for injected LPG).
The cars of today are much more fuel efficient, an XF with LPG will still get the same economy today as what it did 20 years ago.
My AU 5.0 got 515 with half city and half highway, my XD with 302 C used to get 350 max highway. |
I beg to differ about the man doing the install. Yes the right equiptment to suit the application needs to be used, when oftern it's what is cheap or easily availible that is used. BUT workmanship is a problem. The right system won't run good if it's poorly installed & maintained.
Such as when i had my LPGI installed, NONE of the inlet manifold bolts were done up tight, 2 vacume hoses damaged, and a poorly fitted water feed for the converter meant it was leaking.
I fixed up the water leak easily enough. When vehicle was taken in for it's 1500km recheck & retune, their answer to why it's running rough was replace plugs, leads, complete dizzy & then it will be fine. Did all that, not a lick of differance! It was then blamed on the engine burning oil, and with over 200k kms on the clock i thought it was possible & put up with it. When i blew a headgaskit and had to dismantle the top end to fix said issue, i found the issue with the inlet manifold and vacume hoses. Fixed them & head gaskit issue, engine was running great. As it should have been.
Yes the car's of Today are more efficient with fuel, but some older car's when in peak condition & tune can return decent figures as well, and with the price advantage of LPG, still be reasonable to run. A lot of the fuel economy improvements over the last 20yrs come from better transmissions, eg more gears & lockup converters, and better drag co-efficient design of vehicles.
Modern mixers have changed & are better than older designs, especially the AMOS ring type. Converters have not changed much tho.
Cheers
ToranaGuy |
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delburnman
Fordmods Newbie
Age:57
Posts: 3
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Location: delburn VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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 I've been running gas cars for years, starting with a Datsun 200B with factory fitted gas (FORD was not the first as claimed), then XD, XF, EA and recently converted EF Ghia. Gas has never caused a major problem, is less than half the price of petrol with no really noticible loss of power. The weight of a full gas tank adds about 60 kilogram to the cars dead weight, otherwise should be no noticible effect on performance.
The modern gas control units are really sophisticated and far better than early models.
With the grant, the installation paid for itself in less than 5 weeks! Now I'm ahead. Only drawbacks (minor) are loss of space behind the seats and the need to re-mount my subwoofer above the parcel shelf due to lack of space.
Go for gas, but complain about the future introduction of tarrifs that will increase the price in years to come. |
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ToranaGuy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:26
Posts: 446
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Werribee VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yes the price will go up, but atleast it's not as expensive as petrol. As you stated with the grant around, it makes sense when atleast half the cost is getting paid for you, if not more. I just wish it was around when i converted my ford, i wouldn't have been $3146 outta pocked. Took me a total of roughly 8mths to break even.
Slighty OT tho....
As for the factory gas datsun, i had a mate who i used to work with, who had a 200b with Factory gas. I didn't believe him when i was told, so he shown me under the hood & the factory gas suppliment manual for the system. Amazing.
Didn't Ford have a factory gas XB?
Cheers
ToranaGuy |
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FalconIV
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:20
Posts: 66
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Location: sydney NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Is it worth getting one of those tanks that sit in your spare wheel well to save space? |
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MadMatt
Cruise Moderator
Age:36
Posts: 1151
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Location: Greenacres/Adelaide SA, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| Only on a wagon as it has a square hole. |
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bazz
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:44
Posts: 361
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Location: tweed heads NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| i wouldent bother i can get from tweed to newcastle and still havE over a quater of a tank 7.2L to 100ks how many times would u have to stop to get gas on a trip i should get 900 to 1000 ks out of the tank around town its 9 to 10L/ 100KS |
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delburnman
Fordmods Newbie
Age:57
Posts: 3
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Location: delburn VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: |
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No problem, I can get 450 to 500k from a tank of gas and still have a full tank of petrol ready to roll.
It;s a good idea to alternate fuels regularly to keep the valves etc a bit wet and lubed.
My son dove Gippsland to Gold Coast non stop in his ED using both fuels.
Being a a*** I'd stop every 400k and fill up with gas cos its less than half the price, that difference will widen as price of fuel rises in coming months.
The Gas is produced in Australia but oil companies do hike the price to follow international petrol price...they don't need to but are just a tad greedy...and we all knew that!
It's not the range that counts its the savings in your wallet. |
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delburnman
Fordmods Newbie
Age:57
Posts: 3
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Location: delburn VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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 Its worth noting that Australia exports LPG to China for 3 cents per litre! Presumably someone makes a profit on that and also pays for the ships.
We pay thru the nose against what is called "Export parity"
Ausie motorists are being ripped off and you can bet someone in the government is pocketing a share. |
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ToranaGuy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:26
Posts: 446
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Werribee VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: |
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I've got a std tank that means i loose the use of my split fold seat for long loads, but i can still get a pram in the boot if i have to, so it's not that big of a deal. Tank size is around 65 - 70lt holding capacity, on the old engine i was getting around 400 - 500kms depending on city or hwy driving and how heavy my right boot was, that was with a constantly leaking auto as well. 
With the new motor & 5spd in, my petrol consumption is down to about 10/100 avg, but lpg is still about 15/100, (around town) it's needing a tune to suit the new motor. It shouldn't be that big of a gap with LPGI. Wasn't that much gap on the old motor between petrol & lpg. My setup starts on petrol then switches over, so i don't have to worry about running the engine on petrol if i don't want to. It always get's a little squirt every day atleast once.
If i were to fill both tanks, i reckon i could get to sydney without a stop for fuel, which is good enough for me. I usually stop and fillup with lpg anyway, because of the price differance. I HATE paying for petrol, there is no real reason in this country our fuels have to be so expensive. Govt & corporate greed are to blame.
Cheers
ToranaGuy |
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falcondave
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Location: Sydney NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm. I'm still not convinced.
You just can't get as far on gas and the fact that it's a by-product of oil mining means that it's a fininte resource linked to oil supplies.
Natural gas is better (what buses use) but the problem is it takes about 6hrs to fill a tank.
Even if I wanted too I couldn't really put it in the wagon as I need all the space in the cargo bay and can't have a big ugly wheel cramming it up.
Diesel is the go if you want a car that hammers with good ecomomy, especially if you put a turbo in it and it run bio-diesel.
Now that would be an interesting project... |
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Lcdownes
Fordmods Newbie
Age:24
Posts: 9
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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How is LPG a by product of mining oil? It comes from the gas fields in bass strait.
300kms off a 70 litre tank with 60ish max capacity. 1985 xf sedan. |
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Walker
Technical Contributor
Age:37
Posts: 8581
Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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I got 515 k's from 67 litres in my AU 5.0, half city and half highway, i can't wait to see what she does going straight up the hume next week.
I've got it tuned on the rich side too, i'm going to lean it off just a tad seeing as i'll be doing all highway k's.
For anyone who's not convinced, it's your money you're wasting... Not mine! |
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fairmont4me
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Age:19
Posts: 47
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Perth, Back of Wanneroo WA, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| Im loving the gas, just like petrol but half the price. only down between 50-100 k's on gas, but i dont really care about economy now, lol. Il be doing a few more tweaks to the gas setup soon. |
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madmax
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:45
Posts: 3740
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Skye VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| FalconIV wrote: | | Is it worth getting one of those tanks that sit in your spare wheel well to save space? |
Not IMO. They are only around 55lt water capacity, giving you about 44lt of LPG.
Once you convert to gas it becomes your main fuel. Why then would you want a tank significantly smaller than your petrol tank! |
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bazz
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:44
Posts: 361
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Location: tweed heads NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| so so u cant do a grate distance just on gas and u have to have a full tank of fuel wow thats crap i still get better econemy just using petrol you all use gas and fuel so u people will be spending more money at the pump |
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ToranaGuy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:26
Posts: 446
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Location: Werribee VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| madmax wrote: | | FalconIV wrote: | | Is it worth getting one of those tanks that sit in your spare wheel well to save space? |
Not IMO. They are only around 55lt water capacity, giving you about 44lt of LPG.
Once you convert to gas it becomes your main fuel. Why then would you want a tank significantly smaller than your petrol tank! |
That's a serious consideration if you drive long distances and there isn't many places to fill up with LPG, but you could plan the trip to make sure you can get fuel. Some servo's used to have a map that outlined where lpg could be bought, but that was many years ago now, IIRC shell is the one i can remember, and all those years ago there was 3500 servo's across AUS that you could get Shell LPG at. Back when LPG was about 10 cpl.
In the end, i choose the in boot tank with similar capacity to my petrol tank, don't have to worry about filling up so oftern, but i still plan longer trips so i always have fuel or access to it.
Cheers
ToranaGuy |
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AU99
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:56
Posts: 502
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Location: Craigmore SA, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I have driven from adelaide to sydney a few times now and how much does it cost me $120 each way. put $120 worth of petrol in your car and see if you can make it to adelaide........
1500 kays for $120 that is outstanding in my book and like most I dont use petrol either as it starts on petrol (about 2 sec)
And my car is an 99 AU I6 with 807,000 kays on the clock with the original motor still running.
I get around 440 kays around town and 560 on the open road, and I like to stop occasionally on long trips for stuff like drinks, food, dunny and a bit of a break so whats the deal with you dont go as far????
I guess at the end of the day the choice is up to you but like so many LPG converts here, this really helps keeping the dollars in your wallet. |
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falcondave
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Location: Sydney NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Lcdownes wrote: | How is LPG a by product of mining oil? It comes from the gas fields in bass strait.
300kms off a 70 litre tank with 60ish max capacity. 1985 xf sedan. |
http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?Action=Faq#3
"LPG can be obtained from two different methods or processes.
Most commonly in Australia it is extracted directly from ‘wet’ natural gas or crude oil. Almost 80% of Australian LPG is produced from this process and includes places like Bass Strait (VIC), Cooper Basin (SA), Kwinana (WA), North West Shelf (WA) and Surat Basin (QLD).
LPG can also be obtained as a by-product of the petroleum refining process which produces around 20% of Australian supplies. There are seven local refineries - Mobil Altona (VIC), BP Bulwer Island (QLD), Shell Clyde (NSW), Shell Geelong (VIC), Caltex Kurnell (NSW), BP Kwinana (WA) and Caltex Lytton (QLD) all producing LPG.
Australia has plentiful natural supplies and in 2005 exported 1.6 million tonnes of LPG (about 3 billion litres). "
So it's not as green as everyone thinks, certainly not as green as biodiesel.
300kms from a 70l tank is not good IMO. I get about 440km in an EF wagon CITY driving on petrol.  |
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