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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: NORTH COAST NSW, Australia
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 Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:13 am Post subject: EL stopped at highway speed and now won't start - no spark |
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Hi,
Just bought a 98 EL Gli Ford on LPG only 143,000 kms. It has a sprintgas self learning feedback system.
First I noticed a miss at idle sometimes.
Then I was taking the car up the road to show the kids, gave it a bootful and it just stopped. Took hours before it would start again. Hard to get started, backfired once, wanted to start and then finally did. Was rough at idle but once revs were up it purred.
Next just left it idling in the paddock and after about 5 minutes motor stopped and would not start. Left it for hours. Then it just started straight away easily.
Then came the worst of it. Started the Ford, left it idling for 3/4 hour, revved it. No problems. Decided to take one of my kids to a sleep over 30 minutes away out in the bush. Got there not a problem. Cold start hours later, no problem. Then half way home on a straight gave it a bootful. Engine stopped at Highway speed. We rolled to a stop. Waited in the car for 7 hours with my missus and 9 week old baby (not much traffic out here) periodically trying to start it. Car would not start. Got a lift home at 1.30 am.
Had to get it towed home.
NOW CAR WILL NOT START AT ALL. Turns over. Can smell gas. No spark!
Can anyone HELP we are desperate and cannot access a mechanic unless we can start the car, to far away! If we were in a petrol car we feel as if we would have been able to get home.
Cheers
Last edited by a1able on Tue May 01, 2007 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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richard williams
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
Posts: 535
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Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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sounds to me like the gas converter froze up. I have had this happen too. reason may be the pre-heating is not working in the gas regulator.Check the coolant levels, heater tap etc. You probably need it fixed by a gas mechanic. I think it will start if you fix the vaccuum leaks caused by the backfires. Check the hose to the MAP sensor, the PCV valve hose (THE PCV VALVE NEEDS TO BE REPLACED WITH A METAL ONE SUITABLE FOR LPG.)
A vaccuum leak will prevent starting with gas in my experience. You may need special spark leads too that are suitable for gas I have had to replace mine before it causes backfires. |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: NORTH COAST NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Thx for the reply. Checking those things now
It has new lpg leads.
There are major splits in air box hose. The air box and filter are in poor order so will attend to getting vaccum pressure and installing new air filter which i have at hand.
Have to try and get a good look at cap rotor etc. Can the dizzy be removed without removing intake pipes?
I can smell gas when attempting to start the car so would that mean the converter heating is good.
When spark plug removed and tested for spark there is nothing.
Will check for corrossion at lead ends going into dizzy.
Mate comming up with multimeter 
Will let u know how it goes. |
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richard williams
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
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Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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perhaps the coil?
You may have more than one problem.
I would expect a definite vaccuum hose issue. |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: NORTH COAST NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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About to start with vaccum fixed at intake.
Where is the coil located?
How do i get it to spit codes from ECU without handheld unit
Getting Gregories or eqivalent tomorrow and a multimeter. |
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xpression
Technical Contributor
Age:23
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Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| most likely to be a coil on an EL. Could also be the TFI module in the dizzy or an ECU, but my money is on the coil. Its on the passenger side of the engine block just in front of the starter motor. Best accessed from under the car. |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thx for the help.
It is straight gas and the injectors are all disconected.
The dizzy appears original and the terminals on it are corroded so will get a new 1.
How long do the TFI modules statistically last lol. There is a bit on the web about them failing on busy roads in america where at times u have a 1 in 2 chance of being hit when your car stops after a tfi module fails. Ouch!
The coil appears original but terminal is clean.
Had to go to town at last minute so will have a go with the multi-meter tomorrow and check leads dizzy  coil etc.
How do i check the tfi module without swapping out?
How do i clone myself?
Will let u know how i go tomorrow.
Cheers |
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gogetta
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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Location: melbourne, sunshine VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah its probabley a ignition system problem....and i would start by replacing the dizzy (which has integral TFI) and coil with good 2nd hand ones, should be cheap |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Just got to install coil just then. Car started but died after warming up.
No spark again after testing.
Another thourough testing of cap and leads i noticed end of a lead going to dizzy terminal (no. 5 i think) the rubber is soft and squishy. So i guess termianal is getting very hot.
What causes this?
Will try new dizzy cap then whole dizzy if no fix. And of course a new set of leads. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| a1able wrote: |
Another thourough testing of cap and leads i noticed end of a lead going to dizzy terminal (no. 5 i think) the rubber is soft and squishy. So i guess termianal is getting very hot.
What causes this?
. |
Assuming its not general heat soak from the motor and assuming it is a heat problem - a high amount of resistance will generate a lot of heat in an electrical connection. ie. poor conduction of electricity i.e. loose/broken terminal.
Your symptoms suggest to me that the TFI module on the side of the distributor needs looking at. They always had problems in the USA when TFI was mounted to the distributor (close to motor and thick film ignition materials do not like heat!). I believe this is the dysfunctional component of my ingition system altho i have not yet verified this.
Try and get your hands on a known working TFI module. Unfortunately the wreckers will generally sell you the complete dizzy.
FYI the TFI module implements the ignition advance being requested by the ECU and also provides the ECU with information regarding the position of the crank. |
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richard williams
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
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Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Its always a good idea to slap some heat sink compound on under the ignition module to aid head dissipation. I have done it on several cars in the past and never had a problem with the ignition. |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
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Location: NORTH COAST NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Thx for the help!
Aquired dizzy from wreckers and replaced cap and cleaned rotor. The carbon rod was gone and the dizzy appeared to be arcing using the spring. Wow!
I figured this had to be the problem but after 5 min test drive with new cap it died again. Another tow home.
Not sure if ill install the whole dizzy or maybe i can mark dizzy on block at tdc No.1 and twist, gain access to retaining screws, and replace tfi unit without removing whole dizzy.
The heat sink compound is a good idea ill get to that too. Thx Richard.
Only had a couple of hours to work on it yesterday. Should narrow down the fault today if i have time or at least get closer |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: NORTH COAST NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Replaced dizzy (from wreckers as won't buy new till i know what problem is).
Waiting for battery to charge up a bit before i try to start but YAY i have spark again. Looks like it was "TFI" unit all along.
Mate on his way with timing light to check base timing and yes i did mark old dizzy and judge mark on new dizzy. Tried to start a couple of times once spark established but battery low from night tow yesterday.
Will try agian in an hour after tea. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Good work a1able. Will be great to hear your results. I think the damned TFI module has been responsible for a lot of misdiagnosed faults (and unnecesary replacement of parts!) on these engines.
Big class suits against FoMoCo in the USA as a result of these things. I guess we're not a nation of litigators... yet |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: NORTH COAST NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Still not enough power to fire but cranks ok (small charger) will try in the morning as im too tired to try another battery from a different car. |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: NORTH COAST NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Still charging battery.
Looks like it died the other night being towed and havn't had a chance to swap batteries today. Besides should get a new 1 from town tomorrow.
I bet the Ford business model includes aquiring battery manufacturers.
Might buy a gell cell battery, manual gearbox and spare starter motor for this EL and cruise round on battery power.
Its probly done more k's than the car with it's 3second sprints.
Ill hang the little bugger on the wall out of respect when it dies!
P.S Thx again for help and encouragement. Willl let u know when i get it going |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| a1able wrote: |
Ill hang the little bugger on the wall out of respect when it dies!
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Haha, definately wall of fame material!! |
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richard williams
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
Posts: 535
Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Location: melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| damn batterys.. they need a big healthy battery to work well..... Mine died all of a sudden last year |
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a1able
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: NORTH COAST NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Okay EL update,
Replaced the battery but it didn't solve the problem. Orange/Yellow spark. Won't start. Not even a f@rt. Next replaced leads. Still not starting.
So far have replaced coil, distributor, battery, leads, in that order. Think that as I replaced the coil prior to the distributor that the faulty distributor fried the new coil when I test drove the car (remember it stopped again and I had to get another tow) this was when I put the distributor in. Have only been able to get orange spark since then. But I assumed it wasn't starting because of low battery power.
I now think that I have to go to town again tomorrow and purchase another coil. Will go over wiring again before I go just in case I can see something wrong.
Can anyone think of any other reason for the weak spark and non starting. Maybe something obvious that I am missing??????
My EL won't start
With a weak yellow spark
I wish I could get it out of park
My patience is wearing thin
If it doesn't start soon
Its going in the bin
Disgruntled a1able  |
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richard williams
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
Posts: 535
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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sorry...
coil does sound likely.?
I can understand your frustration...
The ef fairmont I am fixing up was supposed to just need a door and guard and wheel .....
So far it has been:
Door, guard, tail lights, headlight, front sub-frame, front wheel/tyre, lower arm, ball joint, steering rack, tie rod ends, steering pump leak, footwell repairs, sill repairs, heaps of work to fix electric windows, new battery, strip and clean console full of jim beam, fix abs, tailgate cover, various interior lights, likely new windscreen, smells like an ashtry still (havent tried the meguiars odour illiminator yet), repairs to throttle body, repair float switch in surge tank, replace mirrors, repair drivers seat, will need stereo as i dont have the code,
Geez I have been busy the last few weeks....
but it does start! |
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