Home |  Forums |  Search |  My Profile |  Chat  Photo Gallery |  Events Calendar |  Technical Documents  No messages |  New Posts |  Watched Topics |  Register   supercharging i6 Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next          Forum Index -> Forced Induction Workshop Latest ratings Highest-ranked posts Highest-ranked topics Highest-ranked posters   Airved Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:19 Posts: 743 Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Location: Canberra ACT, Australia View User Gallery (2) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: I might go with supercharger on my next car then. I don't need mass amounts of power - just want to be quick off the mark and able to do some noice burnouts. Back to top Steady ED Fordmods Addict Age:22 Posts: 7064 Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia View User Gallery (13) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Airved wrote: I might go with supercharger on my next car then. I don't need mass amounts of power - just want to be quick off the mark and able to do some noice burnouts. A centrifugal charger is not going to help you there, it won't make anything off the mark. If your cars manual it'll be okay, but an auto 4L with a centrifugal charger would fair suck a*** IMO. Back to top Airved Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:19 Posts: 743 Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Location: Canberra ACT, Australia View User Gallery (2) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: It will be a manual. I'm just after something that's easy to install, and if it's all bolt on and I can keep my N/A mods, that just makes it perfect for me. The mods I have now will all be going into the next car e.g. zorst, intake. Back to top Redford Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:40 Posts: 556 Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia View User Gallery (4) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Steady ED wrote: Airved wrote: I might go with supercharger on my next car then. I don't need mass amounts of power - just want to be quick off the mark and able to do some noice burnouts. A centrifugal charger is not going to help you there, it won't make anything off the mark. If your cars manual it'll be okay, but an auto 4L with a centrifugal charger would fair suck a*** IMO. when compared to a belt driven centrifugal turbo, twin screw\blade superchargers will create power at a much lower rpm range. Back to top james88 Fordmods - Smokin em up Age:20 Posts: 205 Joined: 27 Oct 2007 Location: whyalla SA, Australia View User Gallery (14) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: 10 to 12 grand for trbo??? thats crazy dont snort sell diy kits for like 3 grand plus say 3 for the little bits and pieces Back to top markr154 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:41 Posts: 1569 Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (13) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: james88 wrote: 10 to 12 grand for trbo??? thats crazy dont snort sell diy kits for like 3 grand plus say 3 for the little bits and pieces The Snort kits range from $2999 - $4999 ...but they do NOT include: Induction / intercooler piping ...add about $2000 for custom welded Ally or SS Aftermarket ECU ...add another $1500 - $2000 Bigger fuel pump and injectors ...another $500 perhaps So, another $4500 approx there ...and it's not even fitted yet! Also bear in mind that the battery will have to be relocated to the boot to make room for the Pod Filter ...so approx $750 in parts and labour there. So unless you're a whizz mechanic / Auto sparky ...you will need to get all the hardware and feed lines professionally fitted, ECU wired in, and finally all nicely dyno tuned ...so chalk up some decent $'s for the labour and time there! So, $10,000 - $12,000 is not unrealistic if you wanna do a decent, reliable job. Back to top IMPRTETA Fordmods Stock as a Rock Age:21 Posts: 127 Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Location: perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:34 pm    Post subject: wat you guys are missing is that a bolt on turbo kit isnt that much more expensive than a blower kit. So ur say that u have to put a fuel system, ecu, exhaust, intercooler etc with a turbo to make good power....... You need all that stuff with a blower aswell!!!! You can get away with no ecu same as a blower kit does, no intercooler same as a blower kit, fuel system can be the same a blown car... You could also get away with a 2 1/2" system. So can someone please tell me how you can say how it cost 4-5k more for the same power level out of a turbo! my 2c worth. Back to top xavier Fordmods Stock as a Rock Age:21 Posts: 146 Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Location: perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: IMPRTETA wrote: wat you guys are missing is that a bolt on turbo kit isnt that much more expensive than a blower kit. So ur say that u have to put a fuel system, ecu, exhaust, intercooler etc with a turbo to make good power....... You need all that stuff with a blower aswell!!!! You can get away with no ecu same as a blower kit does, no intercooler same as a blower kit, fuel system can be the same a blown car... You could also get away with a 2 1/2" system. So can someone please tell me how you can say how it cost 4-5k more for the same power level out of a turbo! my 2c worth. wel for starters most of the centrifugal s/c that i have seen ie raptor and powerdyne are self lubricated so 1 you dont need to plumb oil lines to them like you would a turbo also,2 you can keep your headers instead of having to pay for a new exhaust manifold, dump pipe ect, and being belt driven the s/c dosnt get as hot as the turbo which is turned by hot exhaust gasses so the need for intercooling is not as great as that of a turbo Back to top Tocchi Cruise Moderator Age:21 Posts: 902 Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (20) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: mark $2000 is a tad high for the FMIC piping and such. cost a few hundred in materials (3" stainless) ... so cant really say $1700 in welding Back to top Grimketel Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 1109 Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: I think if your going for a power monster then go the turbo, if you want better pull in your daily driver then get the S/c. Capa claim 240 kw from their powerdyne unit @ the fly, which aint bad for the money. even if you only get 220 your PPO is the same as an early Tseries falc. Personally if I ever go forced which is highly unlikely Id get capa to install but someone better to do the tune for the S/c and flash. Its about the curve and delivery for me, PPO is a very distant second. Back to top EBXR8380 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:55 Posts: 2513 Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Location: Penrith NSW, Australia View User Gallery (4) Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:21 pm    Post subject: Powerdyne are just little better than leaf blowers... Get a decent Vortech or Pro-charger.... A 9.2 compression AU with T04Z spools as quick as you want...There are so many variables...They also have power through WHOLE rev range as do the better blowers... Belts are an issue with Powerdyne..Check U.S prices and you'll see how much CAPA are ripping you off !!! There's heaps of chargers for sale on http://www.corral.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=345 HTH.... Back to top markr154 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:41 Posts: 1569 Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (13) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:22 am    Post subject: Tocchi wrote: mark $2000 is a tad high for the FMIC piping and such. cost a few hundred in materials (3" stainless) ... so cant really say $1700 in welding EF ECTIV paid $2700 for his thru' BPT ...f**k good job though. As I said earlier ...most of us mere mortals don't have the 'Macgyver' touch like you do ...hence we pay more Back to top xfpaul Fordmods Stock as a Rock Age:45 Posts: 133 Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Location: hobart TAS, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: reading this thread , one thing needs sorting 1. turbo - has to spool up to make pressure, low end not good power in the upper rev range 2. belt driven turbo, powerdynne vortec ect - spins with engine revs but the impellor design is not positive displasment so also needs revs in the upper end to make pressure. 3. roots/screw rotor supercharger - moves a given amount of air for every revolution eg. m90 eaton 90cid / 1.4l for one rotation instant boost the moment you open the throtle (throtle closed no air flow no boost) i get max boost the moment i stab the throtle eg. taking off from standing start approx 1000 rpm Back to top Slick Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:40 Posts: 5293 Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Location: Hobart TAS, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:37 am    Post subject: Have you consider Raptor sc? I'm thinking of talking to them if we can get a group buy. the more the numbers the bigger the discount.... Back to top IMPRTETA Fordmods Stock as a Rock Age:21 Posts: 127 Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Location: perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: xavier, Ur exhaust manifold is included in the kit... so all u have to do is get a dump pipe fabd up. still for roughly $500 - $600 u could get a dump pipe made and oil and water lines made. its more the compressing of the air that creates heat. Back to top Airved Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:19 Posts: 743 Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Location: Canberra ACT, Australia View User Gallery (2) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:33 pm    Post subject: Slick wrote: Have you consider Raptor sc? I'm thinking of talking to them if we can get a group buy. the more the numbers the bigger the discount.... Wouldn't mind looking into it. Back to top Slick Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:40 Posts: 5293 Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Location: Hobart TAS, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: Airved wrote: Slick wrote: Have you consider Raptor sc? I'm thinking of talking to them if we can get a group buy. the more the numbers the bigger the discount.... Wouldn't mind looking into it. What I was thinking of, we gather as much people as possible then submit the order to raptor using your forum name as reference. the thing is, you deposit your money into their business account & report back here as PAID next to your username. that way I won't be liable for any screw-ups! lol We'll try & work out a reasonble discount for a decent group buy eg: 5 order = 8% discount, 10 orders = 12% discount or more. Back to top Delta Fordmods Parts Gopher Posts: 67 Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:57 pm    Post subject: xfpaul wrote: reading this thread , one thing needs sorting 1. turbo - has to spool up to make pressure, low end not good power in the upper rev range 2. belt driven turbo, powerdynne vortec ect - spins with engine revs but the impellor design is not positive displasment so also needs revs in the upper end to make pressure. 3. roots/screw rotor supercharger - moves a given amount of air for every revolution eg. m90 eaton 90cid / 1.4l for one rotation instant boost the moment you open the throtle (throtle closed no air flow no boost) i get max boost the moment i stab the throtle eg. taking off from standing start approx 1000 rpm Number 1 one your list there now-a-days is complete crap. It comes down to sizing of the turbo where the power is. With a mild cam, and a GT35/40R I was making boost on the line. Or if I was rolling I could see around 6-8psi at 1800rpm if I had the foot down about 1/4. Considering you'de need an M112 to make the kind of power a 35/40 can make and considering the cost difference between the head units, I'de say turbo is both cheaper and more effective than PD blowers for the same power output. No doubting that you can have a centri supercharger for a little less than either PD or Turbo, but you only make peak boost at peak revs. In some cases this is good (where you have traction problems or big displacement) but in a street car you want big torque everywhere. Number 3 is also a little misleading, in that the supercharger is STILL turning and robbing crank power with the throttle closed, it also makes a fair bit of heat. Bypass valves generally help in this area but the supercharger is still using power directly from the crank while your idling, cruising etc. Intercooling becomes more difficult due to everything being on the intake side, or water/air intercooling needs to be used which takes up space we don't really have on a falcon on the intake side of the 6. Turbo on the other hand creates higher exhaust backpressure at the valve, meaning cam timing needs to be more conservative to stop reversion, however a turbocharger is load dependent, ie if you are making more exhaust gases then it makes boost. If its not under load then back pressure is not significantly raised meaning it doesn't parasitically load the engine as much as the supercharger. Back to top markr154 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:41 Posts: 1569 Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (13) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Snort and Raptor are developing water-air intercooling set-ups that are basically a custom intake plenum with an in-built water cooled exchanger core ...needs a 5L water tank to supply it. I have pics of the prototypes. Dunno about Turbo, but I can see that these could be quite effective on a supercharger set-up, along with the use of a CBF. Back to top xavier Fordmods Stock as a Rock Age:21 Posts: 146 Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Location: perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: i thought water- air coolers were only used on like drag cars n that u have to top up an overflow tank with water and ice b4 use each time? 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