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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
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 Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Can you C*** compare d**k sizes somewhere else. we wanna get back on topic "Positive Displacement" |
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badcooky
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Positive Displacement Charger question |
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| danbode wrote: | Hi there is there any kind of positive displacement supercharger out there that i can run 15PSI + with on an ED XR6? would it be better to get a positive displacment type or the other kind like the rapter V running that kind of boost?
cheers
Daniel |
OK so he asked about a centrifugal so basically "i have been on topic".
Just trying to get along is where i'm at.
I went the twin Turbo on a 98 AUXR8 .The thing went off it's head,but it wasn't practicle.
Had an XR6T was great but when it went in for it's first service it came back slower,Ford said some crap but it was slower i'm sure of that.
This is my first blower and i didn't have an 8 so it went on the 6.
I'm going to buy an 8 so i can try a positive blower some time in the future,but this is all i got till then.
How much is a basic Positive Displacement blower for a V8?
How much extra will it give you from idle it must have more than one like i have.
Gearboxes and drive trains must come under stress.
In the wet they'd be a bit of fun,who has one here enlighten me please. |
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Redford
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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yeah i noticed the same thing about half an hour ago, lol  |
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badcooky
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Just been out in the ute and it's cold outside,and you know what cold weather and forced induction go like. |
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schnoods
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Just a bit on topic...
In the Quokka over here (trading post style newspaper) there is in the performance parts section a 250xflow running a M90 eaton for sale.
Has a lumpy cam, rebuilt recently and carby in a suck thru setup. He's asking $2500. |
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Redford
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| badcooky wrote: | | Just been out in the ute and it's cold outside,and you know what cold weather and forced induction go like. |
yeah its supprising how much difference air temp makes. i got plans to run a water to air setup, i reckon it will be the go. i dont like advertising the fact at least untill its in the car working the way i want. definitely the way to go if you plan to get an intercooler on the ute. realy needs to be setup right but much more efficent and less space needed up front. |
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badcooky
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm actually going to plumb filtered Air con into the supercharger gearbox and then from the gearbox outlet into where the breather from the head should go,might sound whacky but i'll have a red hot go. |
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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| schnoods wrote: | Just a bit on topic...
In the Quokka over here (trading post style newspaper) there is in the performance parts section a 250xflow running a M90 eaton for sale.
Has a lumpy cam, rebuilt recently and carby in a suck thru setup. He's asking $2500. |
That'll be perfect for a corty project I reckon.  might have to ask xfpaul about that type of setup. he's got one running on the i6. he's got some secrets & the know how which I've tried to bait out. alot of knowledge that'll be handy around here I reckon 
.
Last edited by Slick on Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:24 pm, edited 2 times in total |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Positive Displacement Charger question |
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| badcooky wrote: | | OK so he asked about a centrifugal so basically "i have been on topic". |
Shake my head Cooky...
| badcooky wrote: | I'm going to buy an 8 so i can try a positive blower some time in the future,but this is all i got till then.
How much is a basic Positive Displacement blower for a V8?
How much extra will it give you from idle it must have more than one like i have. |
Yella Terra do a positive displacement kit for the 5.4 Boss 260/290 using a Whipple head unit AFAIK. Nice stealth setup, it fits under the plastic engine cover, but doesn't really need to be stealth as it's emission-complied. They start "under $10,000", probably $9,995 LOL. I think that includes fitting through Repco so is a drive-in/drive-out price. 2 other tuners which have 3-letter initials starting with "BP" also do Whipple or Kenne Belle kits for the 5.4 Boss. You'll find them on AFF.
Not so sure if you're thinking retro and another Windsor.
A 10psi positive displacement setup will give you most of the 10psi from idle. If a low-boosting M90 (5? psi) can make a GM V6 deliver torque like a lazy V8, a 2.3-litre Whipple or similar will make a Boss feel like a big Cummins diesel from idle, while still playing ball right through the top end. I was just looking at a dyno chart of a BF GT fitted with the Yella Terra kit, 380rwkw and still climbing at 5800rpm. |
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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| That badcooky is a bit of a noisy character isn't he, good for a laugh! |
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Grimketel
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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In all honesty whipple style kits make centri supers look tame. Centri's are a compromise form of forced induction, and need to be treated as the cheaper but less effective form of supercharging that they are. When companies like aston martin, jagaur, mercedes benz, ariel and of course the Ford GT use PD supercharges, you know there is a definate reason. Man the ariel atom has a 245-300 bhp supercharged Honda K20Z 2.0l....
I dont think powerdynes or raptors are comparible to turbos since they come on later and generally create drag down low on the engine. where as a PD is helping generate higher VE even at idle like speeds which helps generate power to compensate for the loss of power through the crank for drive. They are a much more efficient form of FI than the centri's. Centri's are a cheap design and thats that. |
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Redford
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: Positive Displacement Charger question |
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| sly wrote: |
A 10psi positive displacement setup will give you most of the 10psi from idle. If a low-boosting M90 (5? psi) can make a GM V6 deliver torque like a lazy V8, a 2.3-litre Whipple or similar will make a Boss feel like a big Cummins diesel from idle, while still playing ball right through the top end. I was just looking at a dyno chart of a BF GT fitted with the Yella Terra kit, 380rwkw and still climbing at 5800rpm. |
i take it those psi figures are for an 8 they would be much higher for the i6, eg. m90 (3.0L to 5.7 litre) & M112 (4.6 to 6.0 litre)
edit: nevermind, just trying to work out running pressures 
Last edited by Redford on Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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I know what you mean More Grunt. if only I could get someone to go into business producing on demand basis free standing manifolds and supporting brackets for the PD, targeting the i6 range & beyond. it'll be a good market I reckon!!! 
It'll reduce monopoly & cost, especially with the ones that has a foot hold on this area. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| More Grunt wrote: | In all honesty whipple style kits make centri supers look tame. Centri's are a compromise form of forced induction, and need to be treated as the cheaper but less effective form of supercharging that they are. When companies like aston martin, jagaur, mercedes benz, ariel and of course the Ford GT use PD supercharges, you know there is a definate reason. Man the ariel atom has a 245-300 bhp supercharged Honda K20Z 2.0l....
I dont think powerdynes or raptors are comparible to turbos since they come on later and generally create drag down low on the engine. where as a PD is helping generate higher VE even at idle like speeds which helps generate power to compensate for the loss of power through the crank for drive. They are a much more efficient form of FI than the centri's. Centri's are a cheap design and thats that. |
Yeah I was hoping to do an M90 on an I6 as a project some time, but not on my daily driver as I expect a lot of frigging around to get it set up properly. A centri blower OTOH will suit my daily driver nicely, fit, flash & go. Stock driveability and minimal extra stress on the engine for the 90% of the time it spends under 3000rpm and a useful lift in power over 3000. That's what they're designed for and they have their place. Remember this is a daily driver not a drag car.
I was under the impression though that a centri blower took less power to drive at low rpms than a PD blower as it isn't turning fast enough to generate much aerodynamic resistance. I've not had much success finding hard facts about their effects at lower revs, so I've timed a series of 0-60ft runs as a "before" benchmark and will do the same after I fit it, run it in and have the tune checked. If I get the chance to run some 1/4's I'll post them too... but that may take some time as I'll most likely hit the wagon's speed limiter with the 3.73 diff... 180km/h with a 3.23 diff becomes 153 (95mph) with 3.73. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Dansedgli wrote: | What prices were you getting to come to a $10,000 turbo install? Can you list out where it all goes?
If you go low boost then the same mods would need to be done to cope with your bolt on raptor kit anyway. |
Hopefully I can do this without derailing the thread, if not I'll call for an admin to wipe it.
OK, this is $3364...
Then on top of that there's:
W2A Intercooler 1500
Injectors & Pump 800
Pipes, fittings etc 1000
Installation labour 2000
Tuning 1000
Which adds to another $6300, making a total of $9664 before any overruns, and I haven't made provision for things like a fuel reg or 2-bar MAP sensor. |
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smiley235
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| does any1 realise that this guy has the same power figure as EB_V8's LS1?? See any similarities between the two?????? |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Errrr.... no??? Which guy, which power figure (there are 2 in this thread) and what's the significance? And are you saying there's an EB going around with an LS1 fitted? |
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smiley235
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| sly wrote: | | Errrr.... no??? Which guy, which power figure (there are 2 in this thread) and what's the significance? And are you saying there's an EB going around with an LS1 fitted? |
lol, eb_v8 must have been around before you joined the site, but basically was a troll who baited people and get threads locked. Every now and then, imitations come up. |
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Steady ED
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Smiley, EB V8/xr6tcitric has better grammar.
Sly, your're comparing a turbo setup that is good for 400rkw, to a centrifugal blower that can't spin over 12psi. |
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