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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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 Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ...and loving it... LOL |
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Grimketel
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| sly wrote: |
That's what I was inclined to assume until I found this info --> http://www.928m.com/parts/raptorsuperchargers.php about a test installation on a Ferrari in the USA. I don't know whether it'll do anything like that on an I6, but the 2000rpm mark is significant to me. |
"When fitted with a 2.5" pulley, our test Raptor produced 2 psi of boost at only 2000 rpm on a test Ferrari installation fitted with a 6.5" crankshaft pulley. At only 4500 rpm, the Raptor was already producing 6 psi! (Results vary depending on the engine the supercharger is mounted to). "
this is obviously pushed to the limit of the design. They have selected a specific engine and a specific crank pulley to pull the best figures available. Still it sets a benchmark as to how far it CAN go. I highly doubt a 4lt i6 would achieve the same results, as experience shows with those who have them fitted, the powerdynes usually dont have significant gains until 3000 rpm give or take a few hundered rpm.
which depending on your aplication may be entirely what you want! Horses for courses yet again...
enough on the centri supers now... does anyone have a price handy on the PD setups? and ideas on where you could get brackets made? How hard would it be for an engineering joint to machine a CMC aluminium adaptor for say a whipple? These are just a few of the questions needed to be answered when considering a PD supercharger. |
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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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For short stroke engines as the Ferrari, of course they'll produce boost earlier.
CNC? kostecki comes to mind but I think they'll use their reputation as cost leverage I reckon. the only place I could think of is your local engineering firm. most of them would be happy to take on the challenge. after all, its engineering!
got some ideas on sliding rails which can be use to align the s/c pulley square with the crank................. |
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schnoods
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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They dont call them Kostastacki for nothing! They wouldnt touch it unless it was Cylinder heads anyway.
Obviously Boost would depend on the RPM the motor can produce to find its limitations.
On a 4ltr I6 with a rev limit of 5500rpm you can calculate it out so you get Maximum boost (safe) at maximum rpm( again limiter). On my setup I get around 2psi boost at 2100 rpm and 8.7 psi at 5200 rpm. Thats on a dyno with a Manifold Pressure Gauge hooked up. Within Vortechs safe Limits I can step up to 15 psi, but that would be asking for trouble and belt slippage without a cogged belt. Regardless if the motor is a Ferarri or Datsun, the Rpm of the motor with the gearing of the crank pulley and blower drive will determine the boost.
If I didnt have a couple of cars Im working on I reckon I'd have a crack. Id be using the XF manifold as it would be a good starting point as distribution would be better than working with a BBM manifold. Id be alos mounting the whole lot up and getting pretty close with the original pulley before I'd go with sliding rails for the PD. Id get the blower pulley machined to suit as well. If it were Carby I'd sit the carb on top of the blower with an adapter plate, EFI is easier though for tuning. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Slick wrote: | | For short stroke engines as the Ferrari, of course they'll produce boost earlier. |
I was thinking the opposite... short stroke, big bore = bigger valves, so less restriction... the inlet valve being the smallest part of the intake... less restriction means the air flows more readily into the cylinder, so less pressure in the manifold. As I've said before, I could be wrong.
More Grunt, yes that does seem to be on the bleeding edge. With a 1:2.6 drive ratio like that, the input shaft's max speed of 19,000rpm is reached at engine speed of 7300rpm, which is probably on the money for a 1980's Ferrari. I assume they've used a 1980-89 308 or 328, as that is what they do a kit for. But then that kit has this dyno chart http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/images/ferrari_308/308B4andAfter.jpg for which they rev it just past 8000rpm, suggesting the kit uses a bigger pulley. Lies, damn lies and statistics LOL!
I heard a rumour once that a mob called Forced Air Technologies had developed a manifold-mount system for PD blowers that used the bottom half of the BBM with their adapter replacing the top half. They have a very rudimentary website which is useful to get a phone number from, but so far haven't returned my phone calls. IIRC they are in Melbourne. Bluepower in Melbourne might have a go at it, as might RDP in Brisbane. In Perth, Mark's Workshop do a lot of custom work and something like that would seem to be right up their alley. Ironically I have NFI who in Sydney would have a go and do a good job.
Yella Terra hinted late last year that they might do a 3-stage PD offering for the I6 using Eaton and Whipple head units. Using their Boss kit as a guide, I'd expect a price range of maybe $8-12,000, maybe even a bit more for the intercooled Whipple. |
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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| I was p****d and not thinking logically last night so disregard the Ferrari stroke thingy. LOL |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| So what are you doing up so early today? LOL |
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xfpaul
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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just thuoght i would bring the thread back, possitive displacement = a given amount of air moved for one rev of the blower , one revolution of a centri wouldnt blow out a cigerette, one rev of a m90 is 90 cubic inches of air moved, m112 = 112ci, kenney bell = 2.0l(sorry dont know the ci) and of course my old favorite the b&m 144=144ci which i had on my previous blown car, 327 chev making 840HP at 8500rpm, 10.03 sec 128mph quarter mile time, in a orig body 1966 chev belair 2.4 tons (not a typo).
why a 327, because i used 350 piston which because of the lower pin hight moved them down the bore 1/8 of an inch or 125 thou to decompress the motor to handle the 15 psi i was pumping |
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xfpaul
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| dont like typing oh well, we are running 4 stroke motors that being the case for one rev of a 4.0l i6 you need 2.0l of air (100%ve) and the m90 for ex. pumps 1.4l so itneeds to be over driven to at least 2.0l just to fill the engines requirements, which is a good thing because until you reach a drive of about 2.3:1 you wont be spinningthe blower at its sweet spot , this the case for all blowers , the sweet spot over comes loses past the rotors and still dosnt beat the incoming air to death and over heat it |
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xfpaul
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| bit of triv , just waiting for my wolf v500 to turn up (all paid for) so i can start stage 2 of the lane, cant crank it up any further on the std el ecu |
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Redford
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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so if the m90 is over driven to produce 2 litres per revolution, on paper that would equate to running at 1bar?
out of interest if you ran a large whipple (w305) rated at 2bar 5 litre, would there be much loss in efficiency running it under driven at 1 bar?
edit: BTW if anyone having problems with designing or getting brackets made for these pd chargers i may be able to help out. |
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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| sly wrote: | | So what are you doing up so early today? LOL |
work!
trying to catch up. been loafing around the last three day's wasting my time on here. LOL
wet weather |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Redford wrote: | | so if the m90 is over driven to produce 2 litres per revolution, on paper that would equate to running at 1bar? |
2 litres per engine revolution would be 1 bar of absolute pressure (as measured by the MAP sensor: Manifold Absolute Pressure) which is atmospheric pressure. So it's 0psi of boost (gauge pressure). You would get a theoretical 0.5 bar or 7.3psi approx boost from it if it produced 3 litres per engine revolution: 1.5 times the engine requirement so 1.5 bar of absolute pressure or 0.5 bar of gauge pressure. |
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XR9UTE
EFI Guru
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I've got a mint Eaton M90 you can have for $900. It's well suited to a 4.0L. |
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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| XR9UTE wrote: | | I've got a mint Eaton M90 you can have for $900. It's well suited to a 4.0L. |
What gen is it? |
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Slick
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ha ha what made the plane crash?????????? the driver was a bich |
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Slick
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| sly wrote: | | Redford wrote: | | so if the m90 is over driven to produce 2 litres per revolution, on paper that would equate to running at 1bar? |
2 litres per engine revolution would be 1 bar of absolute pressure (as measured by the MAP sensor: Manifold Absolute Pressure) which is atmospheric pressure. So it's 0psi of boost (gauge pressure). You would get a theoretical 0.5 bar or 7.3psi approx boost from it if it produced 3 litres per engine revolution: 1.5 times the engine requirement so 1.5 bar of absolute pressure or 0.5 bar of gauge pressure. |
first of all, you'll need to vector in the crank & blower pulley ratio to determine blower safe limits & psi . in fact, pressure lost should also play a part in predicting pressure ratio. you need to multiply the pressure lost ratio by atmospheric pressure. subtract atmospheric pressure out of the equation & you should be left with your psi. |
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Slick
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Dah, I think i'm calculost! lol
Who knows the crank pulley size for the i6? |
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sly
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I did a rough measure a few weeks ago... I think it's 6.5" or 165mm going off a measuring tape. Perhaps Tradewind has run calipers over it for a precise measurement? |
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