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realor
Fordmods Newbie
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 Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| is there any speculation on whether the standard T5 manual box will hold up with the extra power? I've heard they're fairly weak as standard? |
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realor
Fordmods Newbie
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there any speculation on whether the standard T5 manual gearbox will hold out with the extra power? |
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realor
Fordmods Newbie
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Is there any speculation on whether the standard T5 manual will stand up with the extra power? |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: The T5 |
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| The T5 will be fine, if you abuse it then it won't be. It seems to be the case the even quitely lightly built transmissions can take a lot of power but as soon as the abuse factor kicks in they will die. |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Tuning AU |
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The following information relates only to the AU INTECH engine.
These are excerpts a Chiptorque email today
"The 29Lb injectors will support around 180rwkw with standard fuel pressure and 10psi of manifold pressure. The 38lb injectors will support around 250rwkw with standard fuel pressure at 10psi of manifold pressure"
"You will run into trouble as the standard ecu will only see about 3psi before it will hit a boost cut - and there is nothing I can do about it within the programming nor is there a 2bar map sensor option. I would be tempted to use a fuel cut defender (HKS) that will limit the map voltage and then just scale the chip for the injectors and tune fuel and timing along with it"
So you can all see that there is no way an AU will take much boost before it shuts the motor down, and the ways around it are listed above.
I will continue with this and get a solution that is workable soon as possible |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Justin at Blacktrack just out of Newcastle seems to think wiring in a 2-bar MAP sensor is viable on a boosted AU. But then his Ford experience is mainly with BA/BF's AFAIK, not sure how many AU's he's done. KPM in Adelaide recently turbo'd and flash tuned an AU1... but I'm not sure if it was Intech or VCT.
In any case I can source a good low-mileage AU1 VCT engine conversion cheaper than rebuilding my Intech.
I've found Dave Sheehy's details so I'll contact him direct about the tune suiting the AU1 when he's back in town.
My car has issues with using a Chiptorque chip unfortunately. Every time I plug anything into the J3 port it wipes the PCM or sends the BEM autistic, requiring a tow and reflash. So whatever I do it has to use the flash tuner.
Having said that, TurboTaxi got a 7psi chip from
Chiptorque for his AU1 Intech which has done wonders for his engine's longevity. It's just not an option for me... |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| OTOH does the 3psi boost cut also apply to the AU1 PCM or only the AU2/3? |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Sly
Good question, I did ask specifically for AU 2 so there is a slim possibility AU1 may be touch different. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Tuning AU |
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| Raptorsc wrote: | The following information relates only to the AU INTECH engine.
These are excerpts a Chiptorque email today
"The 29Lb injectors will support around 180rwkw with standard fuel pressure and 10psi of manifold pressure. The 38lb injectors will support around 250rwkw with standard fuel pressure at 10psi of manifold pressure"
"You will run into trouble as the standard ecu will only see about 3psi before it will hit a boost cut - and there is nothing I can do about it within the programming nor is there a 2bar map sensor option. I would be tempted to use a fuel cut defender (HKS) that will limit the map voltage and then just scale the chip for the injectors and tune fuel and timing along with it"
So you can all see that there is no way an AU will take much boost before it shuts the motor down, and the ways around it are listed above.
I will continue with this and get a solution that is workable soon as possible |
I'll have another go at this in the light of day and minus the coldies under the belt 
I'm not sure what Lachlan means by "nor is there a 2bar map sensor option". Does he simply mean that as no AU model came with one, you can't grab one to swap in as you do with the BA (fitting the XR6T TMAP)? I understand that the AU2/3 TMAP is interchangeable with the BA one, making it possible to use an XR6T TMAP on the later AU's.
This would effectively work the same as a ramping FCD in providing a lower voltage across the range to the ECU and scaling the timing and fuel maps to suit..
Or is he suggesting to use a clamping FCD, which would make the ECU see say 1.9psi all the way from 1.9 to 10? I can see how this can be made to work for WOT, but would you then have to assume the car was at WOT whenever boost exceeded 1.9psi and just map fuel and spark to revs? Would this make for overly-rich mixture and excessively-retarded timing under some conditions?
While my preference would be to adapt a 2-bar TMAP if possible, that doesn't help the AU1 much. As the AU1's TMAP is still an analogue sensor (voltage, not digital frequency as on the E-series) it should be possible to add a GM or aftermarket 2-bar MAP sensor, wiring it in to the pressure signal wire from the TMAP to the ECU... cutting the wire of course.
You might need a few donor / customer cars to cover all the permutations...
Here's the question I should have asked first up: What series AU was the VCT car you did late last year? |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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OTOH you don't use a 2-bar MAP sensor in the Holden kits do you? They seem to work OK from all accounts.
Maybe a clamping FCD might do the job after all. Hopefully this option gives a good enough tune to pass an IM240 drivecycle test. |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Sly reply |
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Sly
Minusing those coldies was a great idea (for this exercise) and you certainly nailed it.
This assumption is very close to the money
| Quote: | Or is he suggesting to use a clamping FCD, which would make the ECU see say 1.9psi all the way from 1.9 to 10? I can see how this can be made to work for WOT, but would you then have to assume the car was at WOT whenever boost exceeded 1.9psi and just map fuel and spark to revs? Would this make for overly-rich mixture and excessively-retarded timing under some conditions?
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The max pressure reading will be clamped to 3psi, from there the fuel and ignition tables in the chip will be written to cover the operating conditions of the engine under boost. This is almost exactly the same as how the Holden tunes work since they are MAF sensed. The tables are rewritten with the fuel/ign values for each point of the RPM range, the ECU has no clue boost is even happening ....... and how successful have we been with that .......... very successful, more so than anyone before us so far as offereing generic tunes goes.
I believe we do have a viable option on the table here, just need to get it onto the vehicle.
Just FYI the flash tuner software offers us everything we need except for injector slope which we NEED, otherwise all timing maps and trans pressures etc etc etc etc are all there.
The AU VCT we did was an S1 according to the owner. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Sly reply |
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| Raptorsc wrote: | | Just FYI the flash tuner software offers us everything we need except for injector slope which we NEED, otherwise all timing maps and trans pressures etc etc etc etc are all there. |
Is that a core limitation in the software or just an omission from the non-VCT template (if the software is template-based)? I.e. can SCT help out with a minor tweak? Or do you have to go the Chiptorque route? |
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sly
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Been doing a bit more research, ummm crash course, minus coldies.
So the flash tuner software doesn't let you change the injector size on non-VCT engines, but does on the VCT engines? How braindead is that?
I hope it's just a case of the parameter hiding under a different name, like being called "INJECTOR_SIZE" rather than "HIGH_INJECTOR_SLOPE".
Still trying to get my head around this... especially as one of the advertised features of the Xcalibrator2 (Flash 2) is the ability for the end user to change the injector size with the handset. Then again I've never had a straight answer from CAPA as to whether the Flash 2's full feature set works on the AU. |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:40
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Latest update
Going for the newer version of the flash tuner, the company having a go are flying some dude up from Bris to sort it all, well thats what they are saying. Going for 36lb injectors, stock rail pressure, and 2 bar MAP. This will also give customers a tune they can vary by certain percentages to nip up the tune to perfection for their application........ through the hand tuner
Stay tuned, will have more info tomorrow |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: Today's updates |
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Sly, mate this is going to happen.
A few changes today, it now is:
Going for 36lb injectors, stock rail pressure, SCT version 2 hand held tuner/flasher and stock MAP.
The tuners (pro's) are landing in Mackay first thing Thursday morning and going back late Friday night. They are not messing around, they want to create a very good generic tune.
The tune will be good for AU S1 and S2 only, S3 will require the the first approach I mentioned, with the FCD etc. I think for now the bulk of the market will be will be S1 and S2, I believe there are significantly less S3s.
Its gonna be wild  |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:40
Posts: 413
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Today's updates |
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Sly, mate this is going to happen.
A few changes today, it now is:
Going for 36lb injectors, stock rail pressure, SCT version 2 hand held tuner/flasher and stock MAP.
The tuners (pro's) are landing in Mackay first thing Thursday morning and going back late Friday night. They are not messing around, they want to create a very good generic tune.
The tune will be good for AU S1 and S2 only, S3 will require the the first approach I mentioned, with the FCD etc. I think for now the bulk of the market will be will be S1 and S2, I believe there are significantly less S3s.
Its gonna be unreal, will be very well done following on in the tradition of our other kits |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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It'll be interesting to see how it pans out with the stock TMAP. Thinking about your post from Monday over a 12-hour dogwatch last night, it sounded like a very neat, elegant solution to 2 problems.
Assuming the Injector Slope is still an issue, that's problem #1. Problem #2 is that apparently the MAP transfer table in the AU can't be edited. Putting a 2-bar MAP sensor in would make it run approx 50% lean. Doubling the injectotr size without changing the Injector Slope would compensate almost exactly, except perhaps when the LOW_INJECTOR_SLOPE is used. But it should still be close enough to tune via the fuel map table.
I await further developments with great interest... |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| sly wrote: | It'll be interesting to see how it pans out with the stock TMAP. Thinking about your post from Monday over a 12-hour dogwatch last night, it sounded like a very neat, elegant solution to 2 problems.
Assuming the Injector Slope is still an issue, that's problem #1. Problem #2 is that apparently the MAP transfer table in the AU can't be edited. Putting a 2-bar MAP sensor in would make it run approx 50% lean. Doubling the injectotr size without changing the Injector Slope would compensate almost exactly, except perhaps when the LOW_INJECTOR_SLOPE is used. But it should still be close enough to tune via the fuel map table.
I await further developments with great interest... |
Something weird happened... the above is on page 3 of 2 and is only accessible ATM by manually editing the URL. Hopefully this fixes it... |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Flash tuner options |
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Here is an image showing the 2 types of flash units we will offer
The fancier looking unit can be unlocked so the customer can adjust the tune within a a certain range. I am not sure how we will protect ourselves against this being misused at this point, maybe someone has some ideas.
You will get the drift of who our supplier will be for these items by the sticker on the flash box. |
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