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badcooky
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Posts: 308
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Location: Toowoomba QLD, Australia
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 Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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OK it's all good let's pack in a few solids for dudes searchin' about CF Superchargers.
NO 1 This would have to be the cheapest solution to go forced.$/HP ratio surely this is the way.
NO 2 Simple system usually a self fit.
No 3,No extra heat/stress management needed out to about 12PSI on a healthy stockish motor.IE driveline will last if used sensibly.
No 3.One hard and fast rule is the 25% larger inlet to carb/TB ratio for optimum gains i am 3inch to 3inch here and i know 4 to 3 would optimise boost and power would follow.
NO 4 Improved fuel efficiency at low load.
NO 5 Similar brands with similar componentry will yield similar performances this should hold true.
Anyone else got some solids here.Or as you can see solidishish. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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I have to get cleaned out for a colonoscopy on Friday. I'll have lots of solids on Thursday...     |
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Dansedgli
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:24
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| badcooky wrote: |
NO 1 This would have to be the cheapest solution to go forced.$/HP ratio surely this is the way. |
How much did your setup cost you?
Snort kits are pretty cheap these days. It would be pretty close assuming people can DIY some of the work. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dansedgli wrote: | | Snort kits are pretty cheap these days. It would be pretty close assuming people can DIY some of the work. |
Depends on the individual. I wouldn't attempt to DIY a turbo install. For me the cost of a Snort Stage 2 kit is less than half the all-up cost of the job. And I would use an externally-gated ball-bearing turbo if going that way... it all starts to add up.
BTW I'll suggest that a new emoticon be made available... a baited hook LOL! |
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Dansedgli
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:24
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| sly wrote: | | Dansedgli wrote: | | Snort kits are pretty cheap these days. It would be pretty close assuming people can DIY some of the work. |
Depends on the individual. I wouldn't attempt to DIY a turbo install. For me the cost of a Snort Stage 2 kit is less than half the all-up cost of the job. And I would use an externally-gated ball-bearing turbo if going that way... it all starts to add up.
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You have to compare apples with apples. If you only want to run 12psi with a raptor there is no point comparing it to a turbo setup capable of running 25 psi.
What else do you need to buy that would double the cost?
Until I know how much a raptor kit costs I cant say what you can and cant include in a turbo setup to match it so Im not going to argue the fact. |
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EL XR8
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| badcooky wrote: | OK it's all good let's pack in a few solids for dudes searchin' about CF Superchargers.
NO 1 This would have to be the cheapest solution to go forced.$/HP ratio surely this is the way.
On a V8, yes. 6 cyl, definately debatable on price per hp.
NO 2 Simple system usually a self fit.
Yes pretty well.
No 3,No extra heat/stress management needed out to about 12PSI on a healthy stockish motor.IE driveline will last if used sensibly.
You'll need water injection or a cooler at 12 PSI. Not many people drive 'that' sensibly, otherwise they probably wouldn't waste their money on forced induction.
No 3.One hard and fast rule is the 25% larger inlet to carb/TB ratio for optimum gains i am 3inch to 3inch here and i know 4 to 3 would optimise boost and power would follow.
Yeah
NO 4 Improved fuel efficiency at low load.
Yes and no. You 'can' obtain slightly better fuel efficiency. But you will never achieve it on the street. No matter how lightly i drive my car. It is still no where near as fuel efficient as it was when N/A. Don't even think for a second driving it slowly around the city will be within litres of when the car was N/A. Highway driving is the only thing where it comes close, but is still a good litre or two off, when it was N/A.
NO 5 Similar brands with similar componentry will yield similar performances this should hold true.
Yes and No, Powerdynes to Vortech, which most people would call 'similar' are worlds apart. You can put down another 40rwkw running a Vortech on the same boost as a powerdyne. Thats the rough guide as to what people have made off numerous cars in the past.
Anyone else got some solids here.Or as you can see solidishish. |
To me a solid bit of info is, if you want a cheaper (on some motors, V8) way to go forced, a blower is good. They're about on par with a turbo setup on a 6 cyl, price wise.
For ease of installation, a blower is going to be twice as easy any day of the week.
A blown car will perform like a N/A car if driven easily but only become wild with revs which can be a good thing, if driven a lot. But will get spanked in any roll on acceleration by a similar powered turbo car.
All depends on what you're after.
Thats about it for the moment. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Dansedgli wrote: | | sly wrote: | | Dansedgli wrote: | | Snort kits are pretty cheap these days. It would be pretty close assuming people can DIY some of the work. |
Depends on the individual. I wouldn't attempt to DIY a turbo install. For me the cost of a Snort Stage 2 kit is less than half the all-up cost of the job. And I would use an externally-gated ball-bearing turbo if going that way... it all starts to add up.
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You have to compare apples with apples. If you only want to run 12psi with a raptor there is no point comparing it to a turbo setup capable of running 25 psi.
What else do you need to buy that would double the cost?
Until I know how much a raptor kit costs I cant say what you can and cant include in a turbo setup to match it so Im not going to argue the fact. |
Promotional prices for the AU are here http://www.fordmods.com/forums/post824695.html#824695
As I said I wouldn't attempt a turbo install myself, I've been quoted 3 days' labour to install & tune... at $80/hr that's $1,920. Dynos near me are charged at $125-150/hr so any dyno time in that will add on as well, say 6hrs @ $45/hr extra... $270. A flash tuner box is included in the Raptor kit (or $500 deducted from the price for buyers who already have one). No tuning is included in the Snort kits, so add $500 at least. IIRC the Snort kit includes an FMU, the Raptor kit includes an XR6T reg and 36lb injectors. Getting harder to compare apples with apples now. I'd prefer not to use the FMU, so allow a bit for reg and injectors, and a bit more for a 2-bar MAP sensor. Going with new parts ($80 per injector) I'd be looking at what? $800?
So far that's $1920 + 270 + 500 + 800 = $3490 on top of the Snort kit price. So just shy of $6500 for the cheapest one. For me. YMMV.
But realistically my choice is strongly influenced by minimising my daily driver's downtime, and the ease with which I can transfer the setup from my 330,000km AU1 to my wife's 100,000km AU3 in the not too distant future when we trade up. |
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markr154
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:41
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Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Lot to be said for the interchangeability advantage.
Wouldn't be TOO much involved to swap the Raptor from an EF/EL/AU to a BA/BF either. |
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sly
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Good point, new bracket and a few incidentals. It'd help though if the BA/F tunes were on a CAPA flash unit. I'm not sure whether the Chiptorque Xflash is the SCT unit rebranded or one of Brendan Ede's creations. |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:27
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Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="EL XR8"][quote="badcooky"]
NO 4 Improved fuel efficiency at low load.
Yes and no. You 'can' obtain slightly better fuel efficiency. But you will never achieve it on the street. No matter how lightly i drive my car. It is still no where near as fuel efficient as it was when N/A. Don't even think for a second driving it slowly around the city will be within litres of when the car was N/A. Highway driving is the only thing where it comes close, but is still a good litre or two off, when it was N/A.
Regarding fuel efficiency, my experience witha powerdyne has been positive. I've driven the vehicle for extended periods with and without blower, recording fuel consumption weekly. Without blower best 'city' results average around 12.5l/100km. With blower fitted best 'city' results are between 11.7 - 12l/100km. Of course this relies on light loads...regular heavy boosting can see this rise to 15l/100km. I can't comment accurately on highway consumption as i haven't used a full tank on only highway driving. I can comment though that on mixed highway (eg. 200km highway, 400km city), I'm more efficient with blower....can get around 10L/100km in this scenario, while closer to 11L/100km without blower. No doubt that driven normally my car is more fuel efficient with the blower. Maybe there is a difference between blower efficiencies? Eg. maybe a vortech, which generates more power for the same boost, also uses more fuel due to increased air temps = less efficient cruise? |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
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Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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with my first pd set up, the 6 psi pulley direct into the throttle body, my fuel economy did not change for normal easy driving. around 250 km to a tank (I have a small cut down tank).
now with a 9psi pulley and intercooler i find it uses a lot more juice. around 210 to a tank now. |
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badcooky
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Posts: 308
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Location: Toowoomba QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Don't want any Turbo interference here this has nothing to do with 'em at all,we stay out of your posts blah blah piss off.
Guys i said efficiency not economy you will be making more power and torque at any point in the range(except idle) so it's got to be more efficient at the same revs.IE where with the car as an NA would you be making the same power/torque.
I get better economy at low load and medium revs as well with mine though actually much better.
And on the highway i use a lot less gas.
I also said $/HP not totall outlay, every other full time system that i've seen to get similar HP has spent more money sometimes much more.
TWR7CXYZ did you sort out your boost issue?
Anybody running water/meth i have a stage 2 something or other but i don't know if i'll install it. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
Posts: 308
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| badcooky wrote: | | Don't want any Turbo interference here this has nothing to do with 'em at all,we stay out of your posts blah blah piss off. |
Sorry mate I took the bait.
Yeah I'm getting fully sick & tired of being challenged to justify my choice. |
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badcooky
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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You're fly negro, it's cool.You explain to these fools what i can't be bothered to do so,so ipso facto it's sortedissimo.
Yes the internet warriors,mums car for a sig,argue the 3 angle valve job versus sodium filled valves but can't rebuild a diff,when they say i/we they mean insert whatever performance shop that's closest etc etc.
OK sorry my bad. |
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sly
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Errr, that may be a tad harsh LOL...
Dansedgli for one has had a bit of hands-on experience here & there  |
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badcooky
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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No he knows some stuff just generalising.
Still hasn't worked out Raptor's phone number though,suspicious character i'd say. |
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Dansedgli
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry cooky, I thought these 2 points were comparing centrifugal superchargers to other options.
They are comparisons to something arent they? Did you mean raptors compared to vortechs? My apologies if I got the wrong idea.
| badcooky wrote: | OK it's all good let's pack in a few solids for dudes searchin' about CF Superchargers.
NO 1 This would have to be the cheapest solution to go forced.$/HP ratio surely this is the way.
NO 2 Simple system usually a self fit.
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| badcooky wrote: | No he knows some stuff just generalising.
Still hasn't worked out Raptor's phone number though,suspicious character i'd say. |
I dont think that is very fair. You are happy to tell the world everything else about the raptor kit yet you are unhappy to answer my questions. I like most people like to know everything I can about a product but I dont want to waste Tim's time asking them.
As sly so kindly pointed out the price for an AU kit was posted on the website so there is no need for the hostility.
And yes I think $4700 for a complete bolt on kit ready to go with a flash tune is a pretty good deal if someone doesnt want to go the more difficult turbo option. |
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badcooky
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Danny boy i hadn't said the R word for 2 full pages and when it pops up IT WAS YOU,ya big smeagal.
Read the intro post of mine.
1 Leave your brand name at the door.
2 let's work together
3 it's about Centrifugal Superchargers.
4 Yada yada yada.
There's enough knowledge here to able to make one of these babies competitive against most anything via a working brains trust taking some positives to a local Australian Supercharger manufacturer at the design stage.
Unfortunately that company is run by the R guy unless someone else comes on board.
And yes Dan it hurts me to say it but your knowledge could be of assistance.
I may live in a dream world with rose coloured glasses but that's how it is. |
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Dansedgli
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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The initial post is why I thought you were comparing a centrifugal supercharger setup to a turbo setup. I only mentioned a raptor kit because I was under the impression that capa didnt support the I6 anymore.
In my defence you could have worded your point a bit better or left it out if you didnt want a comparison to be made.
| Quote: |
OK it's all good let's pack in a few solids for dudes searchin' about CF Superchargers.
NO 1 This would have to be the cheapest solution to go forced.$/HP ratio surely this is the way. |
Ill stay out of your thread now |
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badcooky
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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No you won't 
A few guys have stated that their fuel economy was not better post forced ,mine is better but some guys aren't what models do what basically is a BF more efficient than an AU2 say or do EF/EL get better economy and why.
Which iterations rev better and why.
Similar set ups should yeild similar power.so why not try something different. |
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