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mystery
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Posts: 137
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Location: sydney NSW, Australia
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 Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: EL into EA |
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I can get a good price on an EL Ghia Tickford engine.
I am thinking of putting it into the EA using the standard manifolds (ie no BBM) and having my EA 5 speed ecu run it.
My question is, can I use the electrics from my EA (looms etc) on the EL motor?
Also, will the things not included in the EL motor like power steering pump, radiator etc all fir from the EA?
And can I use the same engine mounts.
So I guess for all intensive purposes, what will not "bolt in".
And if there is anyone in Sydney willing to help out it would be much appreciated. I am not 100% sure on the project yet however, need to do more research first.
BenJ's thread was a good one yet still not detailed enough for my purposes.
Thanks.
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RedRoo
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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If you get all the EL bolt on part's IE: Alternator, power steering pump, aircon pump
ect you can do the serpintine belt conversion as well as the thermofan conversion.
if you use your log inlet manifold and distributor of your motor it should almost be a plug and play swap.
to use thermos instead of your clutch fan though you will need to get a temp switch to turn them on and off.
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sooty72
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:36
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Everything from the EA should fit the EL engine, and provided you use the intake manifold, the EA wiring will be fine. Make sure you swap EVERYTHING over, including the dizzy and coil, as the wiring plugs will be different. You may have to fiddle with the A/C mount, but it won't be too hard. Your other option is to get the EL thermo fans, and then you can use the EL accesories with the serpentine belt drive. The A/C lines will need to be modified or custom made, but it is well worth it. There are enough tech pages on here to get you sorted. Enjoy. 
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EFFalcon
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Log manifold + standard EF/EL Aircon mount + tensioner = issues.
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RedRoo
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:39
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| XG or XH has the right mount dont they for this to work without fouling?
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sooty72
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:36
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I have an EL engine in my XH, using all the XH manifold and bits, but the XH a/c bracket would not fit the EL block. The spacing between the block and some of the bosses on the mount are different. I had to use the EL bracket, and all worked fine.
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xpression
Technical Contributor
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| can i ask why? any gains the EL Tickford motor had would be dependant on ECU and BBM.
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knowsfords
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Posts: 307
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Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| sooty72 wrote: | | Everything from the EA should fit the EL engine, and provided you use the intake manifold, the EA wiring will be fine. Make sure you swap EVERYTHING over, including the dizzy and coil, as the wiring plugs will be different. You may have to fiddle with the A/C mount, but it won't be too hard. Your other option is to get the EL thermo fans, and then you can use the EL accesories with the serpentine belt drive. The A/C lines will need to be modified or custom made, but it is well worth it. There are enough tech pages on here to get you sorted. Enjoy. |
The EL dizzy should be fine, not sure about the coil... but my EB series 1 harness fits both.
And yeah, the EL thermofans are highly recommended.
So yeah... just take off your manifold and engine harness, put it on the EL motor, modify the aircon mount on the EL motor, install the EL thermofans using a davies craig thermoswitch kit.
I recommend getting the fans installed and sorted first.
Anyways, Read these.
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/documents.php?doc=85
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/documents.php?doc=97
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/troymans-doing-now-done-the-serpentine-belt-conversion-t56454.html
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BenJ
Cruise Moderator
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Location: Seven Hills, Sydney NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
If you want to run the 3 belt EA setup, you will also need to change the harmonic balancer on the EL engine to the EA harmonic balancer or the belts won't fit it.
Paulmac is running an EL engine in the configuration you are looking at and is quite happy with the performance. His however was already setup with the three belt arrangement before he got it.
Troyman put the three belt setup on his AU engine when he put that conversion in so could possibly help.
I do believe that the best option for longterm is to try and fit the BBM and serpentine setup.
Good luck
BenJ
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Paulmac
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:61
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Location: Central Coast NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Mystery,
You haven't made it really clear about what does and doesn't come with the engine.
If you have a complete engine ie with the BBM, serpentine belt and all accessories, bite the bullet and put it in as BenJ did.
You will not get the full advantages of the Tickford head without the ECU and knock sensor.
It will sit there and look pretty but not do much else more than an EA.
If it's bare and you can't source the BBM, serp setup, Ghia ECU and associated parts now, consider buying the engine and wait till you get all the bits to save a lot of work
With EA bits fitted, the EL engine is smoother than the EA but not that much more powerful. It just feels that way, at least you can bring it up Ghia spec. later, just much easier and cheaper to do it first up.
I assume you have an MPFI EA not CFI.
Change the Harmonic balance to a new EA or EB one. The old one may just shred it's centre if re-used.
You can use the EL coil and distributor, I did.
All of your accessories will fit on the block.
As you are re-using your inlet manifold and fuel rail all your wiring will fit. You may have to lengthen the coil wire, nothing major.
Use the EA aircon bracket, [in my case read EB2 for all]
Use the EA engine mounts and block brackets.
Use the EA-ED water pump, if you going to re-use one make sure it's in good nick, they don't like being disturbed and often fail soon after.
Use your EA thermostat housing, you may be able to use the ELs top section if you change you top hose and/or fit a larger snorkle.
Optionasl Fit thermo fans, relays and thermo switch, either adjustable or fixed. Well worth the effort and you'd have to fit them to get the engine to EL spec anyway.
The advantage of using an EL over an AU is that you don't have to fabricate any brackets or modify your engine in any way.
The disadvantage of doing it this way, is you never get use the full potential of the Ghia [or std EL] engine.
I've used a three belt setup up until now because I didn't know my options when I bought the bare engine. I'm retiring my EB2 GLI and replacing it with an ED Futura and an EB2 Fairmont, fitting both with EL complete engines because it's the better setup by far.
To close, it's a lot of work and will de-tune your engine but it will work very well. if you have no choice there's your answer.
If you have a choice, do the complete EL install when you have all the bits as per BenJs build. It's the only way to get the best out of your [EL] Ghia engine.
Pic is of an EL engine set up for 3 belts.
Oh, it's better to have a good Tickford engine in your possesion than not have one! LOL
Cheers,
Paul
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Paulmac
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:61
Posts: 636
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Mystery,
If you have CFI, I'm told you will need to use the old CFI dissie [and coil as well, to be sure I guess].
Everything else should bolt on as per above.
Paul
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evilXR_88
Fordmods Newbie
Age:20
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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it is possible to to use all the serp belt setup on the el, including el tensioner, and using the log manifold, without much trouble.
By putting the original air con bracket from the ea on the el block where it sits on the ea block (not where it does on the el, as it sits higher), as well as the el bracket (which are only spacers). This removes any clearance issues with the tensioner and manifold. only things needed are a longer belt (i think a have the part number for the belt somewhere), and about an inch or so longer bolt for the el compressor..
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EL__Fairmont
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 493
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Location: Central Highlands QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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I would be fitting the BBM if your going to swap out the engines. You can get an RPM switch from jaycar or just get an EL ECU.
You will loose at least 10kw at the flywheel with the standard EA log manifold compared to the BBM!!!
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 660
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Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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I put an EL motor in my XG using all XG brackets, accessories, intake, etc. It may be the closest conversion on this forum to your proposal(?). I wrote a list of the conversion in the engine retrofit sticky.
My head was occupied enough doing the conversion this way as it was my first engine swap. However, a lot of the work, and i say a lot of the work, is removing the EL stuff and fitting the old stuff. So now it would be a lot of work again to swap everything back for a complete conversion. My next car will be a complete conversion.
The comments made by others in this thread about smoothness and performance are true to my experience.
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