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Joesau
Fordmods - Smokin em up
Age:21
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 Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: P/m 4480 Q's |
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Im looking for new extractors lately, the 4480 in particular, i have found a second hand set and from the pictures of them the pacemaker badge is on the 4th prim pipe, been looking at forum members pics of them with the badge on the 5th primary pipe,
Just wondering was there a design change? i have been told that they used to have 38mm primaries then they changed to 41mm is that right?
im getting the guy to measure em for me. |
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Private9
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 1543
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Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: P/m 4480 Q's |
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| Joesau wrote: | Im looking for new extractors lately, the 4480 in particular, i have found a second hand set and from the pictures of them the pacemaker badge is on the 4th prim pipe, been looking at forum members pics of them with the badge on the 5th primary pipe,
Just wondering was there a design change? i have been told that they used to have 38mm primaries then they changed to 41mm is that right?
im getting the guy to measure em for me. |
There was a design change on the 4480's at some stage in the last few years. As for the specifics, I'm no sure, sorry! |
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More Grunt
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:26
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Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: |
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is $430 plus $40 postage a good price for 4480's?
brand new.
does anyone know how much pacemaker sell them for off the shelf? |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| More Grunt wrote: | is $430 plus $40 postage a good price for 4480's?
brand new.
does anyone know how much pacemaker sell them for off the shelf? |
I payed $450 installed 3 years ago max. |
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tickford_6
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:25
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Location: townsville QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: P/m 4480 Q's |
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| Joesau wrote: | Im looking for new extractors lately, the 4480 in particular, i have found a second hand set and from the pictures of them the pacemaker badge is on the 4th prim pipe, been looking at forum members pics of them with the badge on the 5th primary pipe,
Just wondering was there a design change? i have been told that they used to have 38mm primaries then they changed to 41mm is that right?
im getting the guy to measure em for me. |
there was a change in pipe size.
but i'd suspect it was mor for the wank/image factor.
people think biger is better. so how come the competion header has smaller pipes. simple make the pipes bigger to sell to the idiots. |
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EL__Fairmont
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 480
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Location: Central Highlands QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: P/m 4480 Q's |
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| tickford_6 wrote: | | Joesau wrote: | Im looking for new extractors lately, the 4480 in particular, i have found a second hand set and from the pictures of them the pacemaker badge is on the 4th prim pipe, been looking at forum members pics of them with the badge on the 5th primary pipe,
Just wondering was there a design change? i have been told that they used to have 38mm primaries then they changed to 41mm is that right?
im getting the guy to measure em for me. |
there was a change in pipe size.
but i'd suspect it was mor for the wank/image factor.
people think biger is better. so how come the competion header has smaller pipes. simple make the pipes bigger to sell to the idiots. |
Totally Agree!
I actually would prefer a set of the old comps with 38mm primaries, alot better for street driving. How often are you bouncing off the rev limiter. Small primaries equal faster exhaust gas velocity, also better power in the low rev range.
Cheers... |
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FordFairmont
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Posts: 3008
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| More Grunt wrote: | is $430 plus $40 postage a good price for 4480's?
brand new.
does anyone know how much pacemaker sell them for off the shelf? |
theyre 4499's that you posted |
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Joesau
Fordmods - Smokin em up
Age:21
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| yeh i have lost a bit down low, mine have the 41mm primaries but at least they match the head outlets of my car 41mm, so they are a good extractor, |
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edfairmont4.0
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| i like my newer 4480's considering, 4.11's 3500-6500 cam, it spends alot of time up in the high revs |
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phongus
Fordmods Junkie
Age:22
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I reckon you can find a better deal. If I remember correctly I paid maybe $400 for a new set with new bolds, gasket and a spare flange to match.
phong =P~ |
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tickford_6
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:25
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Joesau wrote: | | yeh i have lost a bit down low, mine have the 41mm primaries but at least they match the head outlets of my car 41mm, so they are a good extractor, |
who ever made the exhaust ports the same size as the exhaust valve, needs to be shot. or at least his hands cut off so he can't ruin any more heads |
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More Grunt
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:26
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Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| tickford_6 wrote: | | Joesau wrote: | | yeh i have lost a bit down low, mine have the 41mm primaries but at least they match the head outlets of my car 41mm, so they are a good extractor, |
who ever made the exhaust ports the same size as the exhaust valve, needs to be shot. or at least his hands cut off so he can't ruin any more heads |
wanna elaborate on that for those of us who have not worked on heads before? |
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phongus
Fordmods Junkie
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| More Grunt wrote: | | tickford_6 wrote: | | Joesau wrote: | | yeh i have lost a bit down low, mine have the 41mm primaries but at least they match the head outlets of my car 41mm, so they are a good extractor, |
who ever made the exhaust ports the same size as the exhaust valve, needs to be shot. or at least his hands cut off so he can't ruin any more heads |
wanna elaborate on that for those of us who have not worked on heads before? |
I believe it has something to do with pressure. More exhaust flow outwards but not enough back pressure for low down torque, unless you have your foot on the floor all the time or forced induction. Slower exhaust coming out or something.
Think of it this way...when you blow your nose, it is easier when you squeeze one side and blow one then the other, where as if you have both your noses open the blowing is much slower and less effective.
Thus if you want more exhaust flow coming out of your car, slightly smaller primaries would be a good thing...
In saying that, I could also be talking s**t.
phong =P~
EDIT: My wording isn't also correct....so maybe someone else will elaborate or link us to a thread somewhere in FM which I am sure someone else had started previously. |
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More Grunt
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:26
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| phongus wrote: | More exhaust flow outwards but not enough back pressure for low down torque, unless you have your foot on the floor all the time or forced induction. Slower exhaust coming out or something.
Think of it this way...when you blow your nose, it is easier when you squeeze one side and blow one then the other, where as if you have both your noses open the blowing is much slower and less effective.
Thus if you want more exhaust flow coming out of your car, slightly smaller primaries would be a good thing...
In saying that, I could also be talking s**t.
phong =P~
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Back pressure for torque? doubt it... ive read somewhere that backpressure=torque is a myth. torque is mostly produced by volumetric efficiency, ie the more air you can cram into the cylinder the more air there is to be expanded in the resulting explosion thus creating more push down on the crankshaft. so bigger intake valves and increased bore are the torque producers, and bore/stroke determine at what rpm the torque is at.
although i think i know what you mean about flow... with the exhaust valve open, and the piston rising, this forces out the waste gases. so if the pipe on the header is bigger than the exhaust port the gas as it is being pushed out by the piston is moving into a larger volume area and slowing down. once the valve shuts there is only the ready momentum of the gas and expansion to power it along its way until the next pulse of gas from the same cylinder.
therefore shouldnt the primaries be matched or maybe a bit smaller than the exhaust port to keep flow at a good rate? what size is the stock falcon exhaust port? and the exhaust valve?
I think pacemaker would have done their research though. |
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tickford_6
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:25
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Location: townsville QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| More Grunt wrote: | | tickford_6 wrote: | | Joesau wrote: | | yeh i have lost a bit down low, mine have the 41mm primaries but at least they match the head outlets of my car 41mm, so they are a good extractor, |
who ever made the exhaust ports the same size as the exhaust valve, needs to be shot. or at least his hands cut off so he can't ruin any more heads |
wanna elaborate on that for those of us who have not worked on heads before? |
make the port flow high number by making it bigger is the wrong to go about it. the port will loose velocity and it will make the engine 'peaky'.
loss of velocity means a loss of cylinder scavenging, resulting in residual gasses in the chamber.
gaining flow by make the port shape better while using the a smaller port will keep velocity up and create power over a broader RPM range.
the exhaust ports on the I6 heads already flow well, and very little work will result in big gains, the intake port is the problem and time and money are better spent there |
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More Grunt
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:26
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tickford_6 wrote: |
make the port flow high number by making it bigger is the wrong to go about it. the port will loose velocity and it will make the engine 'peaky'.
loss of velocity means a loss of cylinder scavenging, resulting in residual gasses in the chamber.
gaining flow by make the port shape better while using the a smaller port will keep velocity up and create power over a broader RPM range.
the exhaust ports on the I6 heads already flow well, and very little work will result in big gains, the intake port is the problem and time and money are better spent there |
thanks for that mate, much apreciated, I love the s**t you can pick up on here.
just wondering how much residual gas can be left in the chamber? how much room is left in the head after the piston reaches tdc? if the valve is still slightly open after tdc then I can see some gas being withdrawn back into the chamber, but that would be a cam timing issue wouldnt it?
obviously theres and optimum point for ex valve/port size on an i6, as you go too small, and the amount of energy required to push the gas out the hole would rob power off the other cylinders firing in order for the exhaust stroke on that cylinder to occur?! maybe ford should have swirled the exhaust port to increase velocity? you could take parts of the exhaust port out in a swirl patern.. if your good with a grinder. increase in size would be little, but shape would be improved for flow speed.
Im just drinking and chuckin ideas that hit my head... im no mechanic... not even close. |
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racer
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Age:38
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The reason the 4480 extractors are far better is that they have dyno tested them for the sallon race cars. The 4480 pacemakers are tuned length extractors (some length tubes). The reason why they are smaller in one section is that they will create a vacuum type suction affect to scavage all the gasesout of the engine which makes them work not just look good. |
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tickford_6
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| racer wrote: | | The reason the 4480 extractors are far better is that they have dyno tested them for the sallon race cars. The 4480 pacemakers are tuned length extractors (some length tubes). The reason why they are smaller in one section is that they will create a vacuum type suction affect to scavage all the gasesout of the engine which makes them work not just look good. |
ever checked the pipe lengths on the 4480s?
and there one reason the primary pipes are the lenght that are, and it nothing to with any dyno testing.
cylinders 1 and 6 run into the same collector, these pipes are as short as they can be given the distance between the two exhaust ports.
shorter would be better, but you just can't do it. you'll also find that most of the saloon cars run a custom header anyway. as it's one of the few things they are alowed to change. |
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