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EL XR8
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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In relation to no one saying the 'R' word. As if this thread wasnt always intened for you to prech on about them now anyway.
I have never heard a turbo guys, or Vortech/Powerdyne guys harp on so much about a bloody piece of metal.
If you don't want any turbo talk on here, fine. I'll keep it on blowers. A Vortech will s**t on a Powerdyne or rebadged Powerdyne (aka, Raptor) any day of the week. Then a Procharger will s**t on a Vortech in the same manner.
No one on here apart from you Badcooky, is trying to be negative, we all have opinions, and are expressing them. But once we don't preach about Raptor, or are still suss on them, like I certainly am. You go off your rails defending them, and telling people to piss off.
That niggle aside.
To anyone that will be buying a blower kit, CAPA or Raptor. Don't expect the same fuel consumption or better. It wont happen. Even if you drive like a total pansy. Cause if you are, the tune must leaning out a f**k s**t when you're on light throttle. Which is fine,until you give it a few stabs and the temps start to rise, cause its too lean. |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Dansedgli
If I might add something here
You will never be considered as wasting my time, lots of people do it (ring us) every day ......... to find out what they don't know about the product...... everyone's welcome |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:27
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| EL XR8 wrote: |
To anyone that will be buying a blower kit, CAPA or Raptor. Don't expect the same fuel consumption or better. It wont happen. Even if you drive like a total pansy. Cause if you are, the tune must leaning out a f**k s**t when you're on light throttle. Which is fine,until you give it a few stabs and the temps start to rise, cause its too lean. |
My fuel consumption is the same or better when not using boost. Sorry to dissapoint! I've tested this thoroughly for over 12 months....I use 0.5 - 1 litre less per 100km than without a supercharger. With aggressive boost, consumption goes up appropriately. Its not lean, the blower has been on the car since 2002....and driven like it should be. Six years with the same tune and economy, and the engine runs well. I guess in this situation it just works. Admittedly it doesn't make huge horsepower and run 12sec quarters either, but it certainly gets going and gets better economy than standard. |
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schnoods
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:24
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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I wish I could say the same, though I am a bit of a lead foot.
Honestly if you are after fuel economy, you wont get it. The reason why most people upgrade to a centri is the extra shove they will give you.
To find it out you have to wind it out, and no way will that be efficient, babying it around will be like driving with aircon to be honest. It wil have that bit of extra strain (if any) but will have a bit better breathing in return, but because it breathes better, more fuel must go in to prevent that,as a lean condition will undo all the good work.
I can understand Highway driving with standard gears, that would be better for sure, but add in a few traffic lights as well as the odd eager overtake and she'll be out the window.
As for comparisons, you are only as good as the competition. Although the I6 isnt spoilt for choice (snort turbo vs raptor vs capa ba 6) there are options and all seem to be getting reasonable to excellent results.
The V8 side of things we have a few more, but all are pretty costly and dependant of what gear your are running. I went my vortech because of reliability and changability. i am running reasonable power levels already, If I ever decide to go further with my motor (which I will do), I have up to 18 psi on tap (reliably).
But a comparison is good, other wise it would be a big bragfest over look what we have kinda thing. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| EL XR8 wrote: | | rebadged Powerdyne (aka, Raptor) |
Keep to the facts or do your research properly, eg:
| Quote: | | The Raptor is the first all-new centrifugal supercharger designed from a fresh sheet of paper in more than 20 years. Not a copy or version of any other! |
As per this site: http://www.928m.com/parts/raptorsuperchargers.php
That sort of ignorant or inflammatory comment does no-one any favours, least of all yourself. IIRC the product has been around for some 6 years now, the first BF fitted with one has done over 80,000km without the head unit needing to be touched. This is all publicly-available, easily-found information. Why are you "suss" on it? |
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Steady ED
Fordmods Addict
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| JoeXR6 wrote: | | EL XR8 wrote: |
To anyone that will be buying a blower kit, CAPA or Raptor. Don't expect the same fuel consumption or better. It wont happen. Even if you drive like a total pansy. Cause if you are, the tune must leaning out a f**k s**t when you're on light throttle. Which is fine,until you give it a few stabs and the temps start to rise, cause its too lean. |
My fuel consumption is the same or better when not using boost. Sorry to dissapoint! I've tested this thoroughly for over 12 months....I use 0.5 - 1 litre less per 100km than without a supercharger. With aggressive boost, consumption goes up appropriately. Its not lean, the blower has been on the car since 2002....and driven like it should be. Six years with the same tune and economy, and the engine runs well. I guess in this situation it just works. Admittedly it doesn't make huge horsepower and run 12sec quarters either, but it certainly gets going and gets better economy than standard. |
It could just be your tune, even with the blower, is more economical then the factory tune.
Pretty hard to say blowers give better economy then stock when 99% of the cars we are talking about no longer run the factory tune. |
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Raptorsc
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Fuel consumption |
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My experience on fuel economy
In all instances we see an improvement in steady state fuel efficiency, no matter if 4 or 6 cyl. The reason for this (at least in our instance) is that upon fitting a charger unit to an engine it is retuned ...... and properly. This amounts to an edit (using LS1 speak) which in nearly every case if performed correctly will result in factory parameters being sharpened, ie a touch more timing a touch less fuel (not always but you get the drift) for cruise mode. That pretty much sums it up apart from the slight warming of intake air which does raise the cylinder temp slightly (very) further in cruise giving a more complete fuel burn.
As the above always occurs when a charger is fitted it could be construed that the charger itself is reason for the improvement. For those who drive light footed they find the gains, for those who drive with a bit of spirit may find increased consumption ........ accelerating quickly takes more energy.
For those like Cooky ........ well thats another story, he has performed numerous other efficiency increasing enhancements that benefit the tune additionally.
So supercharging your vehicle can benefit your fuel economy because of the R&D that has gone into the tune, so if going lightly around town and on highway you can be better off.
I this piece I have made the assumption that all available kits have a tune which could benefit the fuel economy.......... but that may well not be the case, for us I know we attempt to make the gains as part of the tune. |
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badcooky
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| EL XR8 wrote: | In relation to no one saying the 'R' word. As if this thread wasnt always intened for you to prech on about them now anyway.
Err actually no.
I want us to lead the world here as we do in so many things.
I have never heard a turbo guys, or Vortech/Powerdyne guys harp on so much about a bloody piece of metal.
Maybe it's in your head.
Maybe it's that good.
If you don't want any turbo talk on here, fine. I'll keep it on blowers. A Vortech will s**t on a Powerdyne or rebadged Powerdyne (aka, Raptor) any day of the week. Then a Procharger will s**t on a Vortech in the same manner.
Good solid facts there lots of R&D obviously.
Show me the money.
No one on here apart from you Badcooky, is trying to be negative, we all have opinions, and are expressing them. But once we don't preach about Raptor, or are still suss on them, like I certainly am. You go off your rails defending them, and telling people to piss off.
There there.
Just the turbo speak can piss off.
That niggle aside.
Apparently not.
I'll bet solid money you return with more negative dribble.
To anyone that will be buying a blower kit, CAPA or Raptor. Don't expect the same fuel consumption or better. It wont happen. Even if you drive like a total pansy. Cause if you are, the tune must leaning out a f**k s**t when you're on light throttle. Which is fine,until you give it a few stabs and the temps start to rise, cause its too lean. |
I get more from a tank and i'm using more right foot than ever.And i do the traffic light drags all the time.
No my charger doesn't get that hot,after a few dyno runs ya can put your hand on the thing and keep it there.Pete who runs the dyno was baffled by this.
So now that's over,it's the tune getting more economy for the R guys and all chargers would have better efficiency.
I want a bigger air filter and inlet as it'd be the goods.
Would make more power,be more efficient and probably work cooler as it's not working so hard. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:46
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Another supplier of centrifugal blowers claims in their advertising that their LS1 kit improves the engine's fuel consumption. Given today's litigious society they wouldn't be game to say that unless the improvement was significant and sustained... say 10% or more.
Sure we don't supercharge for better consumption, but if it comes as a side effect, who'd complain? |
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badcooky
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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I hear ya.
I have the pacemaker headers(not comp headers) HPC coated and wrapped to the collector.The comp headers would give it a top end rush with the 3 inch system though.my headers are the torque style header maybe they're half the win at partial throttle.
Have also cut out the floor where the air box used to be and vented air to this spot to overpressureise it.(I'm aware overpressuerise isn't a word)
Also made a coping around the supercharger that,as well as vents cool air to it and shuts out hot air sorta an overpressure system.Am using the 5/8 inlet that usually is the breather for the head as an air inlet as well.Along with the gearbox fan that came with the kit i think i'm optimising efficiency.All this may not show much on a dyno but out in the wind it's like a Ram Air System.
Next is to box the radiator so no air slips past it and what does is ramped towards the right places.
Move the battery to the rear and put the water/meth where the battery was and plumb it in..I'm tired soo tired. |
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sly
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Some good ideas there. I might look at water/meth down the track, but maybe a system like the CAPA one that has the bottle down behind the bumper in front of the RHS wheelarch (without moving the battery). Both my cars are wagons, so putting the battery up the back isn't an attractive option for me.
My headers are also the torque style and my camshaft is advanced a couple of degrees to give more down low. So I mightn't get as many RWKW as Tim has out of the AU, but the blower will nicely complement my other mods. |
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badcooky
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I've advanced the cam on my XR650 as well Sly so i know what you're looking for.A midrange push is what i'd guess
It's got a stage 2 cam advanced by 4.3 degrees in it, it's flowed ,high comp Piston and a Giannelli can stuck out the back.
Goes alrigh,t done 112mph on dirt by GPS briefly. |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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[quote="badcooky"]
Have also cut out the floor where the air box used to be and vented air to this spot to overpressureise it.(I'm aware overpressuerise isn't a word)
Also made a coping around the supercharger that,as well as vents cool air to it and shuts out hot air sorta an overpressure system.Am using the 5/8 inlet that usually is the breather for the head as an air inlet as well.
Did you take any pics of these air pressure mods badcooky? I'd be interested to see what it looks like, and if its something I could do on my AU. I like the idea of maximinsing efficiency wherever possible, even if it seems gains are minimal. |
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badcooky
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Joe i have a computer glitch and with work it'll be a while sorry.
Yah i did something similar with the AUXR8 that i fitted twin turbos to so an AU will work. |
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JoeXR6
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Cool, I'll be keen to have a look when you're able. Badcooky, you mentioned the 25% larger than throttle body opening for boosted pipework as well earlier (I think that was the statement). How does this work....I'd have thought that the smallest point of restriction (eg. throttle body) would limit the rest of the pipework size? |
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badcooky
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Most people think of throttlebody CFM flow, well from a blower it means nada.
I'm a great believer in velocity as opposed to CFM.
And at the TB i can pick up that velocity.
It's how efficiently a blower head can force air, so more in the mouth, more at the crank.
Less heat.
Easier to spin the blower. |
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RAPTOR_XR8
Fordmods Parts Gopher
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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So what your saying is i could put a 3'' pipe from charger to T/B and it would make more power, go better??
Right now ive got a 2.5"" pipe will it make much difference?
Im currently make 8.5psi around 5500rpm, will i make it lower in the rev range or what??? |
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schnoods
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Does depend on what throttle body you are running.
On the corral forums, the mustangs that run centri's use 2-3 inch piping for the inlet, some of them run 8 psi, some run 24!
8 psi is 8 psi, the piping going larger wont make a noticable difference, especially when you are going only 1/2 inch in diametre bigger, Unless you had a front mount and 7 ft of piping. |
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badcooky
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I think at the inlet go as big as you can,a bigger area to draw from makes it more efficient.At the bellmouth.
Schnoods is right 8psi will always be 8psi.
But the formula is to go at least 25% bigger at the air inlet than the TB.
What do those John Bowe signature TB's do are they a better design. |
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RAPTOR_XR8
Fordmods Parts Gopher
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Most people think of throttlebody CFM flow, well from a blower it means nada.
I'm a great believer in velocity as opposed to CFM.
And at the TB i can pick up that velocity.
It's how efficiently a blower head can force air, so more in the mouth, more at the crank.
Less heat.
Easier to spin the blower.
So should i run 3'' piping from charger to throttle body |
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