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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 660
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: locating lip/spigot on hub adapters discussion |
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There has been some debate on the importance or otherwise of the
existence of a lip/spigot on hub adapters. I am talking about a lip/spigot
that is a neat fit inside the hole in the centre of the rim. I have had at
least one new thought on this and offer the following, in order of
increasing importance;
- during fitment of the wheel a deep lip/spigot takes the weight of the
wheel while you locate the studs in the holes, making it easier. Then a
lip/spigot of any depth makes locating the nut tapers into the rims easier
as well.
- if the wheel nuts come loose a lip/spigot will keep things together for
longer, possibly providing a safety and economic advantage.
- a lip/spigot provides immense backup strength if the studs and the
friction between the hub and the rim are overloaded. During overloading
the studs would flex and the friction would be overcome, but rather than
the studs permanently bending or breaking and the wheel shifting
significantly or letting go, the wheel would only move a fraction then the
lip/spigot would stop any further movement. The studs may then cause a
re-adjustment back towards the original position. Regardless, friction
would be reasserted and all would be well, even the balance.
Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Sun May 18, 2008 10:28 pm, edited 2 times in total |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 660
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| twr7cx wrote: | i didn't like the skinny a** one that came on my hub adapters. got a mates dad to improve them for me.
they're a press fit into the hub adapters, and a perfect fit into the wheels. |
The originals do look thin, at least a bit thicker would have been better.
It looks like you wouldn't be able to fit standard wheels anymore though?
[PS i have a 14" screen and your photos are BIG, it's great for detail, but in this case smaller might be better?] |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 10174
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| relaxed_diplomacy wrote: | | twr7cx wrote: | i didn't like the skinny a** one that came on my hub adapters. got a mates dad to improve them for me.
they're a press fit into the hub adapters, and a perfect fit into the wheels. |
The originals do look thin, at least a bit thicker would have been better.
It looks like you wouldn't be able to fit standard wheels anymore though?
[PS i have a 14" screen and your photos are BIG, it's great for detail, but in this case smaller might be better?] |
I can remove them if there a problem for you.
No standard wheels will fit on most hub adapters with a lip. reason is because the lip goes outwards, meaning that the centre hole in the back of the wheels would have to be larger. this could be changed easy enough but.
that second picture is deceving, the centre peices actually go inwards. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 660
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I can remove them if there a problem for you. |
Oh no, don't do that. Maybe i can learn how to navigate better.
Plus i can use the 'return' buttom more often so the text is easily readable.
| Quote: | | No standard wheels will fit on most hub adapters with a lip. reason is because the lip goes outwards, meaning that the centre hole in the back of the wheels would have to be larger. this could be changed easy enough but. |
I wasn't sure but i figured the standard centre tapers, so once the
adapters are over say one inch, i figured they would machine out the
centre of the adapter while leaving a lip. Hmm.
Another point, not mentioned in my opening ideas but relevant to the
third point, is will the studs break without a lip anyway? Maybe another
part of the suspension would fail before the studs fail. Maybe in a
horizontal load the front radius rod washer would be extruded through the
chassis? And maybe in a vertical load the strut bottom flanges would crumple
and/or the bolt shear? - the load there would be magnified and
the two shear points would be less area than the five studs.
| Quote: | that second picture is deceving, the centre peices actually go
inwards. |
I thought i was going okay but now i'm confused. Did the original lip get
machined off? |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 10174
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| relaxed_diplomacy wrote: | I thought i was going okay but now i'm confused. Did the original lip get
machined off? |
Sure did. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 660
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| twr7cx wrote: | | that second picture is deceving, the centre peices actually go inwards. |
I think now it's just your comment i don't get. It looks to me like the hub
adapter wasn't snug on the hub centre, and the insert is, meaning the
insert in that section would be a few mm thick all the way along
(concentric). The outer part, the lip, is possibly say 10mm thick. Towards
the outermost part of the insert it has a radius before it meets the hub. ?
Today i looked at my EBII front hubs and the locater/bearing housing
seems about 50mm long and is not tapered, so i can see that a lip is not
possible or needed here with std wheels. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 660
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
View User Gallery (5)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Were the simmons custom made, machined out, or standard? If standard,
why do they make them with a bigger centre that wouldn't be right for
most people? |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 10174
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| These ones were on an AU previously I think. I had the centers machined out a bit to fit on the hub adapters. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 660
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
View User Gallery (5)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Did you consider modifying the adapters in such a way that the rims
could stay stock? That would seem easy to do, there would just need to
be a step in the inside diameter of the adaptation. |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 10174
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| relaxed_diplomacy wrote: | Did you consider modifying the adapters in such a way that the rims
could stay stock? That would seem easy to do, there would just need to
be a step in the inside diameter of the adaptation. |
THat would have to have been done when the adapters were first made - can't be done afterwards, as the metal has already been taken off.
Either way didn't overly bother me as both ways the wheels and adapters fit fine on the car - I'm not looking at changing wheels any time soon - but I have been thinking about redoing the back simmons so that they're wider and don't need the adapters, leave the fronts as are then when I get a brake upgrade the changed offset won't matter. I can always get some rings to fit in the back of the wheels to fill in whats been removed. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 660
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
View User Gallery (5)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| twr7cx wrote: | | relaxed_diplomacy wrote: | Did you consider modifying
the adapters in such a way that the rims could stay stock? That would
seem easy to do, there would just need to be a step in the inside
diameter of the adaptation. |
THat would have to have been done when the adapters were first made -
can't be done afterwards, as the metal has already been taken off. |
I don't think it's worth debating, but i was thinking you had added
material during your modifications to the adapter and could have
accomodated my suggestion then, or could do so retrospectively.
I was also thinking that in the original photo the unmodified adapter
actually seems to have a larger I.D. than the O.D. of the axle bearing
cap, which would give a tad more meat to my suggestion, but i knew that
could easily be a viewing trick.
Ultimately of course you can actually do pretty much anything with it if
you have a lathe, welder, associated tools and materials, and sufficient
expertise.
I figure as a general rule where you have to modify one thing or another
its better to modify the cheapest most readily available component.
And yet all in all i can't say exactly what i would have done when faced
with your situation because there are numerous peripheral factors i'm not
aware of. |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 10174
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| relaxed_diplomacy wrote: | | twr7cx wrote: | | relaxed_diplomacy wrote: | Did you consider modifying
the adapters in such a way that the rims could stay stock? That would
seem easy to do, there would just need to be a step in the inside
diameter of the adaptation. |
THat would have to have been done when the adapters were first made -
can't be done afterwards, as the metal has already been taken off. |
I don't think it's worth debating, but i was thinking you had added
material during your modifications to the adapter and could have
accomodated my suggestion then, or could do so retrospectively.
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You are right, I did add the new peice in, but the back of the wheels had already been machined prior to that.
There are alternative ways of doing it, and if I had the resources myself I quiet possibly would change it, but it's working fine as is. |
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Macca
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:36
Posts: 3118
Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Location: Singleton NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| twr7cx wrote: | | relaxed_diplomacy wrote: |
[PS i have a 14" screen and your photos are BIG, it's great for detail, but in this case smaller might be better?] |
I can remove them if there a problem for you.
. |
"twr7cx" can you not post pictures of that resolution and file size, even if you had some massive resolution you would have needed to scroll across the screen to read posts, there is also members stuck with dialup, you had almost 3mb of pictures posted (no I am definitely not on dialup  ). |
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Macca
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:36
Posts: 3118
Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Location: Singleton NSW, Australia
View User Gallery (15)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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BTW hub adaptors or spacers are illegal on vehicles not originally fitted or optional from the factory, this is an Australian ADR, most states state this in their vehicle compliance codes, some states are very grey about it, just like their system is in general, where the left hand doesn't talk to the right hand.
Anyone using hub adaptors if you have an accident I hope you are not at fault, and secondly you have in writing that your insurance company is OK with them, they might still try to get out of it as the car is technically not roadworthy. |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 10174
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Macca wrote: | | "twr7cx" can you not post pictures of that resolution and file size, even if you had some massive resolution you would have needed to scroll across the screen to read posts, there is also members stuck with dialup, you had almost 3mb of pictures posted (no I am definitely not on dialup ). |
You serious? This threads been going for a month or two now, no one else has shown an interest, it was essentially just me and rd having a conversion in public spot, and neither of us really had an issue with the pictures.
besides, applying your theory, next time i go to the drags, i shouldn't drive my car as fast incase the guy next to me can't keep up.
ah well your the boss - just means now that no one else gets to see the pictures - there loss, not mine. |
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Macca
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:36
Posts: 3118
Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Location: Singleton NSW, Australia
View User Gallery (15)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| twr7cx wrote: | | Macca wrote: | | "twr7cx" can you not post pictures of that resolution and file size, even if you had some massive resolution you would have needed to scroll across the screen to read posts, there is also members stuck with dialup, you had almost 3mb of pictures posted (no I am definitely not on dialup ). |
You serious? This threads been going for a month or two now, no one else has shown an interest, it was essentially just me and rd having a conversion in public spot, and neither of us really had an issue with the pictures.
besides, applying your theory, next time i go to the drags, i shouldn't drive my car as fast incase the guy next to me can't keep up.
ah well your the boss - just means now that no one else gets to see the pictures - there loss, not mine. |
Well unless they are some what brain dead, all they need to click on is the links, so there is no loss, there are other member in Fordmods that would have liked to have read this thread and your posts, but if they were on dialup it would have taken so long to load there would be a fair chance they would have clicked the back button.
What does it take to be courteous to other members, 5mins of your time? You could have attached the photos the post itself.
It is no different to if I sent you a gigabyte attachment in a email to you, yes I know your ISP wouldn't allow this but I am giving an idea of what it would be like.
We forgot to put this into the guidelines it has been a word of mouth guideline for some time.
BTW if this thread was just between you and "relaxed_diplomacy" you should have used PM or email, it was originally started for public viewing, others have viewed it and as you can not count I thought I better tell you this thread is less than 1 month old. |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
Posts: 10174
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Macca wrote: | | Well unless they are some what brain dead, all they need to click on is the links, so there is no loss, |
Hmmm... I must of been brain dead last night, didn't notice that you had left the links, thought you had just clean deleted them, so apologies. |
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Macca
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:36
Posts: 3118
Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Location: Singleton NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| twr7cx wrote: | | Macca wrote: | | Well unless they are some what brain dead, all they need to click on is the links, so there is no loss, |
Hmmm... I must of been brain dead last night, didn't notice that you had left the links, thought you had just clean deleted them, so apologies. |
I know I can be an A hole, but I wouldn't do that unless it was illegal etc. 
Sorry if I sounded like I was being picky but to many members are using imageshack etc and posting excessively large resolution and file size pictures, we encourage members to use the "add an attachment" in a post, it also has a bonus of not disappearing unless you go back to your attachments and delete it, links to Imageshack etc commonly change or get deleted and we end up having no picture which says a thousand words. |
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