Home |  Forums |  Search |  My Profile |  Chat  Photo Gallery |  Events Calendar |  Technical Documents  No messages |  New Posts |  Watched Topics |  Register   commercial airbox for behind headlight?          Forum Index -> 6 Cylinder Workshop Latest ratings Highest-ranked posts Highest-ranked topics Highest-ranked posters   relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 948 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:34 am    Post subject: commercial airbox for behind headlight? I recently read a thread where there were custom airbox's shown, they were made of plastic or some kind of fibreglass and fitted EA-ED, AU and BA models. They replaced the std airbox and drew air from behind the headlight, and were to suit a pod. The thread was locked due to commercial selling. I would like to PM the person making them? Back to top Slick Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:40 Posts: 5301 Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Location: Hobart TAS, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Re read the locked thread. you should see a radio button under his post. Down here VVVVVVVVVV Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 948 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: I looked for the thread again but couldn't find it. I don't think it matters though. I had another look at the car today and was reminded that the headlight actually has a rubber seal around it. Not much air would get behind the EA/EB/ED headlight from the front, perhaps only a small amount through a gap above the chassis rail. To me it seems that with the aforementioned setup most of the air would get sucked up from the holes in the guard and from behind the blinker, so the air would come from this region, which would include some water and dust/dirt/mud spray from the wheel as well. So the air would be 'cool', but not pressurised. So my thinking is a free flowing snorkel setup is actually superior, gaining cool as well as pressurised air. That's not to say there aren't other ways of getting a good result. Back to top Slick Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:40 Posts: 5301 Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Location: Hobart TAS, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:37 pm    Post subject: Thats because the MODS deleted the thread! LOL Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 948 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: Slick wrote: Thats because the MODS deleted the thread! LOL I figured that was possible, that's why i created this thread! Back to top Grimketel Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 1109 Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: relaxed_diplomacy wrote: So the air would be 'cool', but not pressurised. So my thinking is a free flowing snorkel setup is actually superior, gaining cool as well as pressurised air. That's not to say there aren't other ways of getting a good result. its not going to be pressurised with the larger snorkle and box, if anything it will be negatively pressurised (read vaccuum) at revs. take off your intake system and place your hand 6 inches from the tb and give a yank on the throttle cable, it will damn near suck your hand into the tb! be carefull though I almost lost a finger testing how much vacuum these things have!!! lol. even a bigger snorkle wont keep up with the demand of a 4l 6 at revs. Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 948 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 pm    Post subject: More Grunt wrote: relaxed_diplomacy wrote: So the air would be 'cool', but not pressurised. So my thinking is a free flowing snorkel setup is actually superior, gaining cool as well as pressurised air. That's not to say there aren't other ways of getting a good result. its not going to be pressurised with the larger snorkle and box, if anything it will be negatively pressurised (read vaccuum) at revs. take off your intake system and place your hand 6 inches from the tb and give a yank on the throttle cable, it will damn near suck your hand into the tb! be carefull though I almost lost a finger testing how much vacuum these things have!!! lol. even a bigger snorkle wont keep up with the demand of a 4l 6 at revs. I'm glad you mentioned that, because i've been thinking again that i may just fit my mixer to the bbm and then a pod to that. I like the simplicity, reduced cost, enhanced accessibility to other engine components, and enhanced protection from water ingress. I figure if there are any power and/or economy gains from having less restriction they would probably be undermined by the hotter air. A clincher for me might be how loud the pod is at normal road speeds. I don't care much about the noise from 0 to 60km/h, it's after that that i don't want to hear it, as that's where i do 99% of my driving, i'm in the country. Why should a pod be louder than a pancake filter anyway? Back to top Grimketel Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 1109 Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: relaxed_diplomacy wrote: More Grunt wrote: relaxed_diplomacy wrote: So the air would be 'cool', but not pressurised. So my thinking is a free flowing snorkel setup is actually superior, gaining cool as well as pressurised air. That's not to say there aren't other ways of getting a good result. its not going to be pressurised with the larger snorkle and box, if anything it will be negatively pressurised (read vaccuum) at revs. take off your intake system and place your hand 6 inches from the tb and give a yank on the throttle cable, it will damn near suck your hand into the tb! be carefull though I almost lost a finger testing how much vacuum these things have!!! lol. even a bigger snorkle wont keep up with the demand of a 4l 6 at revs. I'm glad you mentioned that, because i've been thinking again that i may just fit my mixer to the bbm and then a pod to that. I like the simplicity, reduced cost, enhanced accessibility to other engine components, and enhanced protection from water ingress. I figure if there are any power and/or economy gains from having less restriction they would probably be undermined by the hotter air. A clincher for me might be how loud the pod is at normal road speeds. I don't care much about the noise from 0 to 60km/h, it's after that that i don't want to hear it, as that's where i do 99% of my driving, i'm in the country. Why should a pod be louder than a pancake filter anyway? 1) unboxed pod is illegal due to the increase in emissions when the engine bay gets warm. 2) noise is fine (at least in the box) and it rises with rpm. obviously doing 2k rpm on the freeway I dont hear a thing outa mine. 3) you will loose torque going straight off the throttle body, when mine was on dyno we ran it with then without intake system on and lost about 7-10 nms worth at the treads with straight tb. gained about 10 rwkw though, but they are peak numbers, not worth loosing 7 nm all across the range for a brief hit of 10 kw. Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 948 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Stepping back for a moment . . . More Grunt wrote: relaxed_diplomacy wrote: So the air would be 'cool', but not pressurised. So my thinking is a free flowing snorkel setup is actually superior, gaining cool as well as pressurised air. That's not to say there aren't other ways of getting a good result. its not going to be pressurised with the larger snorkle and box, if anything it will be negatively pressurised (read vaccuum) at revs. take off your intake system and place your hand 6 inches from the tb and give a yank on the throttle cable, it will damn near suck your hand into the tb! be carefull though I almost lost a finger testing how much vacuum these things have!!! lol. even a bigger snorkle wont keep up with the demand of a 4l 6 at revs. Maybe the point here should be that a slightly pressurised snorkel has worse airflow than a non-pressurised airbox. I'm not sure that it's true though. I hadn't thought of this before. Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 948 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: More Grunt wrote: 1) unboxed pod is illegal due to the increase in emissions when the engine bay gets warm. This is the first slightly meaningful reason i have heard why unboxed pods are illegal. But even then a box doesn't necessarily free the intake of warmed air. Plus there are many older cars on the road that suck warmed engine bay air. Quote: 2) noise is fine (at least in the box) and it rises with rpm. obviously doing 2k rpm on the freeway I dont hear a thing outa mine. Would you hear it at highway speeds if there wasn't a box? Quote: 3) you will loose torque going straight off the throttle body, when mine was on dyno we ran it with then without intake system on and lost about 7-10 nms worth at the treads with straight tb. gained about 10 rwkw though, but they are peak numbers, not worth loosing 7 nm all across the range for a brief hit of 10 kw. It's good to see some figures, but did you have big powerful fans blowing air through the engine bay? If not the figures are meaningless. Back to top Grimketel Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 1109 Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: relaxed_diplomacy wrote: This is the first slightly meaningful reason i have heard why unboxed pods are illegal. But even then a box doesn't necessarily free the intake of warmed air. Plus there are many older cars on the road that suck warmed engine bay air. thats because they are before modern emisions laws. same as old cars that were made before seatbelts were mandatory, they dont apply because of the time they were built. Quote: Would you hear it at highway speeds if there wasn't a box? I dont think so, at 2k rpm there not a lot of suction. its above 3k that i start to hear mine, so maybe 2.5k you would hear one badly enough for it to be annoying. Quote: It's good to see some figures, but did you have big powerful fans blowing air through the engine bay? If not the figures are meaningless. Im not sure what you are getting at, you would need boeing turbofans blowing into an engine bay to give the air enough speed to increase power meaningfully. my point was that having induction piping from the airbox to the tb gives a boost to torque levels as it increases air velocity as it runs through the tube. the longer the tube the more the torque gain, as the vaccuum from the tb has more time to "work" on the air mass. higher air mass velocity means greater low rpm cylinder fill, hence more torque. the downside is a restriction at high rpm, which is the reason for more kw with just bare throttle body. This point was in response to your idea to play the pod straight off the tb. You will have more top end, but loose a lot down under 3500 rpm. Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 948 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:51 pm    Post subject: Quote: It's good to see some figures, but did you have big powerful fans blowing air through the engine bay? If not the figures are meaningless. Quote: Im not sure what you are getting at, you would need boeing turbofans blowing into an engine bay to give the air enough speed to increase power meaningfully. my point was that having induction piping from the airbox to the tb gives a boost to torque levels as it increases air velocity as it runs through the tube. the longer the tube the more the torque gain, as the vaccuum from the tb has more time to "work" on the air mass. higher air mass velocity means greater low rpm cylinder fill, hence more torque. the downside is a restriction at high rpm, which is the reason for more kw with just bare throttle body. This point was in response to your idea to play the pod straight off the tb. You will have more top end, but loose a lot down under 3500 rpm. I meant unless you used big powerful fans your in-engine-bay intake would have been receiving extra warmed air, making your dyno comparison figures meaningless, due to the lower density and higher temp of the air. Back to top Grimketel Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 1109 Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:16 am    Post subject: relaxed_diplomacy wrote: I meant unless you used big powerful fans your in-engine-bay intake would have been receiving extra warmed air, making your dyno comparison figures meaningless, due to the lower density and higher temp of the air. nah it was on the dyno, the bonnet was up, so plenty of fresh air to the tb. Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 948 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Hmm, okay, i had kind of assumed the bonnet to be down. In that case i can see your dyno reading comparisons could be good. Thanks. Back to top frankieh Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 1392 Joined: 23 Dec 2007 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (29) Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:19 am    Post subject: hmmmm, negative pressure in your air intake.. I have only one thing to say.. If it doesn't blow....... it sucks. Back to top Grimketel Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 1109 Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: frankieh wrote: hmmmm, negative pressure in your air intake.. I have only one thing to say.. If it doesn't blow....... it sucks. Not all of us can get bargain m90's frank! Back to top frankieh Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 1392 Joined: 23 Dec 2007 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (29) Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:59 pm    Post subject: hey man... I got it on Ebay... I setup a search in ebay to email me any auctions with M90 as the search term.. then I waited for the right one to show up.. took a couple of months, but eventually it did.. can't wait to finish this thing. Back to top Grimketel Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:26 Posts: 1109 Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Location: Bacchus Marsh VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: frankieh wrote: hey man... I got it on Ebay... I setup a search in ebay to email me any auctions with M90 as the search term.. then I waited for the right one to show up.. took a couple of months, but eventually it did.. can't wait to finish this thing. i cant wait for you to finish it what are you doing on the induction side of things? going to 3 inch? anything special? I know N/A 3 inch intake isnt much chop, but with your m90 Id Imagine a good intake setup would be worth while developing. Back to top frankieh Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:36 Posts: 1392 Joined: 23 Dec 2007 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (29) Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: well I have a customised pod setup already... will probably advance that a bit more with something that picks up air from the front bar.. I was planning to put an aftermarket EL XR6 front end on it and before I do, I'll do some custom fiberglass work and integrate pickups at the exact high pressure points in the front bar and try to make it look factory. As for pipe size.. I'm not sure yet.. I was actually thinking of 2.5 inches actually.. the intake and outlet adapters have 2.5 inch pipes on them so it would be the easier option.. (except for entry to and exit from the intercooler which is 3 inches) I had an idea the other day.. If I run the piping exactly right.. I can run a 2.5 inch pipe back from the intercooler up though the gap in the middle of the BBM runners and onto the intake mouth without having to go over the top of the manifold at all.. that way it would be nearly invisible and I could actually modify a factory setup to cosmetically sit over the top of the custom pipework so that to the un-knowledgeable eye, it would look totally factory. stealth is the name of the game I'm playing here.. I want this thing as invisible as I can make it. good against the cops.. and good against the holden drivers.... I'm not sure that pipe diameter is as important when you are charged... I could be wrong.. but a great deal more air will go down a 2.5 inch pipe compressed under 10psi pressure than will go down a 3 inch pipe being drawn down by a NA motor. Besides, I am more than half convinced that even with 2.5 inch piping, the intercooler (despite being a huge thing with 3 inch inlet and out) is still the biggest restriction to windspeed and flow. I will experiment anyway..see what works best.. later on down the track I plan to switch to water to air intercooling and then I'll just have a pipe go from the outlet of the charger, though a small heat exchanger and straight onto the intake.. at that point I might swap to 3 inches. Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First             Forum Index -> 6 Cylinder Workshop Page 1 of 1   (c)2002-2008 Matti Jones and Brad Evans [46 queries :: 0.10098 seconds ]