Home |  Forums |  Search |  My Profile |  Chat  Photo Gallery |  Events Calendar |  Technical Documents  No messages |  New Posts |  Watched Topics |  Register   been told can fit steel sump & normal bellhousing to AU . ?          Forum Index -> 6 Cylinder Workshop Latest ratings Highest-ranked posts Highest-ranked topics Highest-ranked posters   relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 660 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: been told can fit steel sump & normal bellhousing to AU I was speaking to a wrecker today and he told me you can fit the steel sump and pre-AU auto bellhousing to the AU motor. He said if you do the both together it works. I know i've read discussion here and seen a photo showing why this can't be done, but i can't quite recall the exact nature of it, so i'm just checking in case. Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total Back to top n00bus m@x1mus Fordmods Oompa Loompa Posts: 46 Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Location: Bowen QLD, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:33 pm    Post subject: How far pre au are u talking about. the autos are pretty much same as respects bolt pattern right back to EA, before that the starter cutout is on the opposite side and bellhousings cannot be swapped to get around this as the 4spd auto has alot deeper bell to allow for the thicker torque convertor and willnot fit in side the older bellhousing. Back to top EBXR8380 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:55 Posts: 2442 Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Location: Penrith NSW, Australia View User Gallery (4) Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Just drill the lower holes from sump through bellhousing.. Unless you are runing high power ?? The upper bolts are the same and will be enough... But its no issue to drill out and fit some 10mm bolts... Thats AU into E series... The E series don't have bolts through bellousing sump area.. .. They don't have issues.. They bolt up anyway.. In this pic the RED bolts at the sump are drilled through bellhousing.. This is a T5 , the BTR is the same... Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 660 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject: EBXR8380 wrote: Just drill the lower holes from sump through bellhousing.. Unless you are runing high power ?? The upper bolts are the same and will be enough... But its no issue to drill out and fit some 10mm bolts... Thats AU into E series... The E series don't have bolts through bellousing sump area.. .. They don't have issues.. They bolt up anyway.. In this pic the RED bolts at the sump are drilled through bellhousing.. This is a T5 , the BTR is the same... Are you explaining how to bolt an AU motor with alloy sump up to an EA/EB/ED/EF/EL bellhousing? If so that's cool and the info is good to know, but it doesn't quite address my question as to whether a steel sump and unmodified EA-EL bellhousing can be used. If i can't swap the sump and use my EB bellhousing, my current plan is not to take the risk, i'll get an AU bellhousing. I drive on rough roads, and they can be got for say $70. Back to top nannas_ed Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:23 Posts: 2101 Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia View User Gallery (8) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:12 am    Post subject: relaxed_diplomacy wrote: EBXR8380 wrote: Just drill the lower holes from sump through bellhousing.. Unless you are runing high power ?? The upper bolts are the same and will be enough... But its no issue to drill out and fit some 10mm bolts... Thats AU into E series... The E series don't have bolts through bellousing sump area.. .. They don't have issues.. They bolt up anyway.. In this pic the RED bolts at the sump are drilled through bellhousing.. This is a T5 , the BTR is the same... Are you explaining how to bolt an AU motor with alloy sump up to an EA/EB/ED/EF/EL bellhousing? If so that's cool and the info is good to know, but it doesn't quite address my question as to whether a steel sump and unmodified EA-EL bellhousing can be used. If i can't swap the sump and use my EB bellhousing, my current plan is not to take the risk, i'll get an AU bellhousing. I drive on rough roads, and they can be got for say $70. i don't think an pre au sump will work on an au motor due to oil pump location and internal clearances between the two. if it were the case though and they are interchanable then why are people who are doing these conversions either a) ground the sump back to clear the k-frame or b) cut the k-frame to clear the sump Back to top falcon_3512003 Fordmods - Smokin em up Age:37 Posts: 236 Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Location: se melbourne VIC, Australia View User Gallery (12) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: dose anyone have piks of the sump or k frame thats been ground im thinking on doing a au into my ef and are there any other isues to know about be for i got do this and is it worth it as my motor has died? Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 660 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:45 am    Post subject: nannas_ed wrote: i don't think an pre au sump will work on an au motor due to oil pump location and internal clearances between the two. Can anyone confirm that? The person that told me they are interchangeable said the oil pickups are the same. I recall reading something about there being extra bolts into the side of a main bearing journal or housing or somesuchlike on the AU to stiffen/strengthen the situation and this renders a sump change unviable . . ? Quote: if it were the case though and they are interchanable then why are people who are doing these conversions either a) ground the sump back to clear the k-frame or b) cut the k-frame to clear the sump I reckon they're doing it because it has to be done that way, but i'd just like to check. Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 660 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:51 am    Post subject: falcon_3512003 wrote: dose anyone have piks of the sump or k frame thats been ground im thinking on doing a au into my ef and are there any other isues to know about be for i got do this and is it worth it as my motor has died? Thankfully there are lots of pics of modded sumps and frames on this forum, if you do some searching you should find them. Putting an AU into an EF would be less work than into an EA/EB/ED, but i still recommend you do research before lobbing into it. Back to top twason Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Posts: 2051 Joined: 06 Nov 2004 Location: Canberra - The Nations Capital ACT, Australia View User Gallery (9) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:00 am    Post subject: E series sump is not a bolt on to A or B series, you will need to modify the rear main cap as they are different. There also may be a slight clearance issue around the girdle. Back to top falcon_3512003 Fordmods - Smokin em up Age:37 Posts: 236 Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Location: se melbourne VIC, Australia View User Gallery (12) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject: ok what if u used an au trany to any isues with fitting that in the ef Back to top arm79 Cruise Moderator Age:29 Posts: 3560 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Westside VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: twason wrote: E series sump is not a bolt on to A or B series, you will need to modify the rear main cap as they are different. There also may be a slight clearance issue around the girdle. That would be correct. There is clearance issues with the girdle, mainly due to the height of the end caps. And don't forget in addition to the rear main cap, there is also the timing cover that is different. Back to top AU99 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:56 Posts: 470 Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Location: Craigmore SA, Australia View User Gallery (3) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: falcon_3512003 wrote: ok what if u used an au trany to any isues with fitting that in the ef trans is pretty much the same, just change bellhousing to a AU one Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 660 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: arm79 wrote: twason wrote: E series sump is not a bolt on to A or B series, you will need to modify the rear main cap as they are different. There also may be a slight clearance issue around the girdle. That would be correct. There is clearance issues with the girdle, mainly due to the height of the end caps. Okay, thanks. It looks like i'll stick to plan and use an AU bellhousing and alloy sump and modify the crossmember. Quote: And don't forget in addition to the rear main cap, there is also the timing cover that is different. I'll be using the AU motor, timing cover, accessories, serpentine, etc, so that side of things should be good. Thanks again guys. Back to top EBXR8380 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:55 Posts: 2442 Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Location: Penrith NSW, Australia View User Gallery (4) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: If you drill the housing there no difference they bolt up and there's no point in changing sump.. On an EB/ED the front bar can be bent 20mm further foward ..Or grind some alloy off sump.. You are making it harder than it is... We have a C4 auto in this car now.. Btw E series had NO issues with the bolts so why would it with AU engine?? Spend the $80 on bellhousing if you want .. In any case it may pay to buy engine and box.. This is how we prepared the front Xmember.. The original air compressor bolted up with spacers... Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 660 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: EBXR8380 wrote: If you drill the housing there no difference they bolt up and there's no point in changing sump.. On an EB/ED the front bar can be bent 20mm further foward ..Or grind some alloy off sump.. You are making it harder than it is... Yes, i could be doing it with less work. I am listening to and considering your info and opinions, and they may be okay for a number of people, but i am still thinking in my case that . . . . i plan to use the AU bellhousing because i don't want to compromise in that area, especially as i drive on rough roads which generate much more forces in this area. . . and i plan to modify the crossmember because: i don't want to compromise the original crossmember or sump i don't want to run an alloy sump with so little protection i want to beef up the crossmember to stiffen the chassis to be like the EF onwards i want to fabricate a skid plate of sorts i wanted to buy a mig anyway, and steel for reinforcement only cost $25 Quote: In any case it may pay to buy engine and box.. It may be the right choice to update the box too, for sure it may, i have thought about this. But the current box is working fine and the costs of the conversion are adding up. So, as much as i don't want to do the motor and then the box only a few months later, i plan to use the original box. Maybe i should get a quote on a box, i figure i would be looking at $400+? Quote: The original air compressor bolted up with spacers... I am told the EA/EB/ED a/c compressor pulley is different to the serpentine belt? Has that wrecker done me wrong again? Back to top EBXR8380 Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:55 Posts: 2442 Joined: 07 Nov 2004 Location: Penrith NSW, Australia View User Gallery (4) Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:58 am    Post subject: The front bar is hardly a xmember.. If we did it again we would just weld another bar infront and cut the old one out and tidy up so its not noticable... In the pics and engine above.. This car is turbocharged runing 270 rwkw with C4 .. Btw my Turbo V8 only uses the top part or engine bolts on bellhousing as std.. It has 483 rwkw with manual trans.. It has NO issues in this area.. Both a*** are engineered... Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 660 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: RD wrote: Engine torque puts the bellhousing bolts in shear and given their significant distance from the rotational axis and your experiences it seems they are up to the task, so far, even with a couple missing. Actually, thinking again, surely the engine's torque is transmitted to the chassis via the engine mounts, and through the gearbox shafts and innards. If this is true the engine's torque, even a hot engine's torque, wouldn't put any great strain on the bellhousing bolts. Looking again at the supplied photo, i can't see the braces that are normally on the EA to EL motors. Did the AU replace these with the extended sump? It would be a shame for me to buy an AU bellhousing then have the gearbox die in the near future and end up buying another gearbox which would likely have another bellhousing on it. Back to top relaxed_diplomacy Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:33 Posts: 660 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Location: delegate NSW, Australia View User Gallery (5) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: After some mulling i am now thinking i will use my EB bellhousing mated to the AU motor, as per EBXR8380's photo with the red bolts. Although, i will also conside fitting the braces as well, i have a spare pair so would be okay about trimming and drilling them. Thanks EBXR8380. I'm still welding mod's to the front 'crossmember' though, particularly for off road use. 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