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gogetta
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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Location: melbourne, sunshine VIC, Australia
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 Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: timing chain rattle |
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have we worked out what is the main cause
im doing the reasearch and planning on a rebuild...
im going to be taking a fair bit off the deck and head and am concerned if this is going to cause chain rattle
also why does it seem to affect cars with aftermarket cams mostly ? |
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my el project
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:18
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Location: brisbane QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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i just did mine and it ratles when i first start... wtf
the self tenchiner dont work to good... |
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opto
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:44
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Location: Adelaide SA, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: Re: timing chain rattle |
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| gogetta wrote: | have we worked out what is the main cause
im doing the reasearch and planning on a rebuild...
im going to be taking a fair bit off the deck and head and am concerned if this is going to cause chain rattle
also why does it seem to affect cars with aftermarket cams mostly ? |
The timing chain tensioner mechanism consists of a spring and oil pressure along with a stepped wear retensioning mechanism.
The aftermarket cams normally have a bigger than standard profile creating greater lift, holding the tension on the chain requires a greater spring tension to counter this effect.
Otherwise the guides on the side and bottom are worn/damaged. |
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fiftyone
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| by rattle, you mean you can hear rattley metal? or the engine shakes? |
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gogetta
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| fiftyone wrote: | | by rattle, you mean you can hear rattley metal? or the engine shakes? |
no you can here the chain rattling against the guides....youll know it when u hear it, fairly common |
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pettsy351
Fordmods Newbie
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| so where would you get a heavier spring for the tensioner and how are you to no how much heavier to ask for |
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opto
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| pettsy351 wrote: | | so where would you get a heavier spring for the tensioner and how are you to no how much heavier to ask for |
Good question, I dont think they make one, however I have found a suitable spring and created a double spring to act on the tensioner, i got the original spring and took it to a spring manufacturer and found one to suit.
I never really tried it but the theory was good.
The other solution is to replace the guides, tensioner shoe and cam chain may solve the problem as the load of all the new s**t may keep enough tension for sometime. maybe a few years. |
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pettsy351
Fordmods Newbie
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| thanx for that |
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gogetta
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I dont think that a spring is going to help at all because isnt the tensiioner controlled by oil pressure....the spring is there to hold it in place at startup |
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tickford_6
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:25
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: timing chain rattle |
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| gogetta wrote: | have we worked out what is the main cause
im doing the reasearch and planning on a rebuild...
im going to be taking a fair bit off the deck and head and am concerned if this is going to cause chain rattle
also why does it seem to affect cars with aftermarket cams mostly ? |
the best thing you can do is use hi compression pistons and not shave the head as much.
all new timing set- chain, guides and tensioner.
and don't use JMM cams shafts |
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opto
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| gogetta wrote: | | I dont think that a spring is going to help at all because isnt the tensiioner controlled by oil pressure....the spring is there to hold it in place at startup |
True But how much pressure is being produced by the oil, and how much bleedoff is there ?, Im not sure myself. |
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tickford_6
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| opto wrote: | | gogetta wrote: | | I dont think that a spring is going to help at all because isnt the tensiioner controlled by oil pressure....the spring is there to hold it in place at startup |
True But how much pressure is being produced by the oil, and how much bleedoff is there ?, Im not sure myself. |
ahell of alot more then the spring could ever hope do.
the tensioner is feed by the same gallies that feed the head. this intern if feed from the same gallies that feed the crank. IF there was that much bleed off the rocker gear would starve for oil.
that i can assure you of. I've seen it happen.
the head gaskets can leak oil from the oil feed at the front of the deck, it leaks into the timing cover so you never see it. but it ends up starving the rocker gear of oil and killing all the HLAs. |
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markr154
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: Re: timing chain rattle |
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| tickford_6 wrote: | | gogetta wrote: | have we worked out what is the main cause
im doing the reasearch and planning on a rebuild...
im going to be taking a fair bit off the deck and head and am concerned if this is going to cause chain rattle
also why does it seem to affect cars with aftermarket cams mostly ? |
the best thing you can do is use hi compression pistons and not shave the head as much.
all new timing set- chain, guides and tensioner.
and don't use JMM cams shafts |
Can someone explain to me WHY JMM's camshafts seem to cause this problem?
I've got a full DEV 5 set-up ...and recently had 2 chain guides replaced cos of bad wear resulting in chain rattle (timing cover was worn too) ...but now the rattle seems to have come back ...and I get an annoying ticking sound at idle that seems to be coming from the bottom of the car AND the engine between the Rocker cover and BBM?
NOTE: Can't be the lifters ...had all of those replaced last week. |
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naughtyfalcon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: |
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what most people think is a rattle is in fact the injectors doing there thing.
some extractors can also produce a type of noise that sounds like ticking,,its not unusual and in most cases is not harmful.
the timing chain tensioner is feed by a special regulator type thing in the front of the block,it is designed to maintain oil pressure in the adjuster and the spring is just there to apply pressure when the motor is not running.
from experience the rattle we all get and I've heard right through from ea to Au is just something we have to put with.
we have auto adjusting tappets and they are not solid thus the ticking noise on start up.
once filled up the noise should go away,if it don't then you have problems. |
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FairmontXR6
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I had the DEV5 cam/head package and had the same rattle. I changed back to the stock cam (xr) no rattle, changed back to DEV5, got the rattle back and finnally went to my current lumpy surecam cam, which has no rattle. No other changes were made.
Just my 2 cents. |
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xcbest
Fordmods Newbie
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Location: brissy QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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same question & problem on another couple ford sites/// problem seems to be the type & brand of cam-- manufactuer does not seem interested in permanent solution.all other disscussions found only 1 permanent fix , different brand of cam--even if same sort of specs or larger-- seems to fix problem in all cases  |
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