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foggy
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 49
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Location: Sydney NSW, Australia
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 Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| It was made from a Nescafe jar and some stainless flat strap I had hanging around. Gas output was probabky only 250ml/min but it did help a 1.5 hyundai abit. I wasnt running an effie which made the gain rather small. The next version I use on my AU I hope to get a mate to program up a PIC for me so I can vary the gas output based on an rpm input. |
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motortronics
Fordmods Newbie
Age:64
Posts: 9
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Location: Elands NSW Australia NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Dr Karl on Triple J |
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| El Sledgo wrote: | On the science program on Triple J recently, Dr Karl was posed a question about Hydrogen injection which sounded very much like HHO. It's on a podcast for those of you who missed it.
Broadcast/Podcast date: 2008-06-26
Link to MP3 of Podcast: http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/science/triplej/drkarl_20080626.mp3
Podcast Reference: 22'42" into the podcast.
Dr Karl mentioned that a farmer made up a similar kit and got poor results and has basically bagged the whole concept as a con.
So much for "scientific method". He mentions only ONE reference of a failed attempt, yet disregards anecdotal evidence from a myriad of sources that prove more than 1mL of gas per minute is produced.
Believe me when I tell you this concept is not repeat is not a scam. The concept works and works well, it is just the interpretation put on it by various people who wouldn't accept help if it was offered. The other thing is how a kit is put together, amount of electrolyte added to the water, and generally how it is applied to the engine. But, my friend, do not accept any negatives from people who can't see outside the square. This concept does work.
Regards,
Noel
I've been pooh-poohed by naysayers on the Drive.com blogs as well which is only driving my resolve to get my setup producing some substantial results. |
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El Sledgo
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 15
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: Carcinogenic by-products using S/steel electrodes |
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Just stumbled on this link, http://www.antique-engines.com/stainless-steel-electrodes.htm.
For the uninitiated, the by-product is Hexavalent Chromium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexavalent_chromium), which was the toxic substance that Erin Brockovich based her case on.
The dangers of this substance in water is well known, but I'm quite sure we're all responsible enough to not pour used solutions down the drain in the off-chance the solutions themselves (be-it KOH or baking soda) would leech the chromium out of the stainless steel electrodes.
I'm going to do a bit more research on whether the electrolyte solutions react with the s/steel to produce the by-product and would welcome discussion from others here on their understanding and findings too. |
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El Sledgo
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 15
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Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Dr Karl on Triple J |
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| motortronics wrote: | | El Sledgo wrote: | On the science program on Triple J recently, Dr Karl was posed a question about Hydrogen injection which sounded very much like HHO. It's on a podcast for those of you who missed it.
Broadcast/Podcast date: 2008-06-26
Link to MP3 of Podcast: http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/science/triplej/drkarl_20080626.mp3
Podcast Reference: 22'42" into the podcast.
Dr Karl mentioned that a farmer made up a similar kit and got poor results and has basically bagged the whole concept as a con.
So much for "scientific method". He mentions only ONE reference of a failed attempt, yet disregards anecdotal evidence from a myriad of sources that prove more than 1mL of gas per minute is produced. |
Believe me when I tell you this concept is not repeat is not a scam. The concept works and works well, it is just the interpretation put on it by various people who wouldn't accept help if it was offered. The other thing is how a kit is put together, amount of electrolyte added to the water, and generally how it is applied to the engine. But, my friend, do not accept any negatives from people who can't see outside the square. This concept does work.
Regards,
Noel
| Quote: | | I've been pooh-poohed by naysayers on the Drive.com blogs as well which is only driving my resolve to get my setup producing some substantial results. |
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I think your quote got mangled in my statement somewhere there, Noel. I know from viewing countless HHO vids using all sorts of solutions are working. I think caustic soda has been banned as a drain cleaner now, so we shouldn't willy-nilly be pouring excess or waste solution down the gurgler. However, in my previous post, I just need to check if s/steel will leech out the Hexavalent Chromium into solution, and if it will do so whether pure water, KOH, baking soda, or even distilled vinegar would cause it to leech out.
I guess what it means for all here is that we treat it with the respect it deserves. |
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duggyTX
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Location: Adelaide SA, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: Engine durability |
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I'm currently bench testing an HHO unit & building an EFIE, but before I install the unit (to my Magna 3.5ltr not yet to Terry) I'm wondering about engine durability. I read somewhere on the net that 100% Hydrogen cars require stronger internals (bearings, caps, etc) so I'm wondering about the long term usage of a HHO unit.
Even with an increase of say 25% fuel being burnt would this extra combustion of fuel increase the internal temperature enough to damage internals?
There must be limit or balance as to what is the optimum between additional fuel burning to motor damage. Or is there?
Will this have an adverse effect on the life span of the engine?
Your thoughts. |
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garthr
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:46
Posts: 153
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Engine durability |
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| duggyTX wrote: | I'm currently bench testing an HHO unit & building an EFIE, but before I install the unit (to my Magna 3.5ltr not yet to Terry) I'm wondering about engine durability. I read somewhere on the net that 100% Hydrogen cars require stronger internals (bearings, caps, etc) so I'm wondering about the long term usage of a HHO unit.
Even with an increase of say 25% fuel being burnt would this extra combustion of fuel increase the internal temperature enough to damage internals?
There must be limit or balance as to what is the optimum between additional fuel burning to motor damage. Or is there?
Will this have an adverse effect on the life span of the engine?
Your thoughts. |
Don't know what u would regard as "long term usage" , but my hilux has done over 13,000km with hho, & hasn't shown any signs of damage as such.
Important to add, - i am only boosting it with something like 1 litre/min hydroxy.
Only other thing that may do damage is if u allow your cell to run while engine is off (not a good idea anyway) it will ping on startup from too much hydroxy buildup in intake.(to run larger quantities of hydrogen you must retard timing to somewhere near tdc)
Garth |
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duggyTX
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 2
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Location: Adelaide SA, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: long term |
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Thanks garthr, I regard long term as say typical life span of ownership. i.e 200,000km over a 10 year period.
Is your Lux diesel or petrol? Have you compression tested prior & at intermediate km/s?
Old tech diesel motors are built more solidly than a petrol motor. So they most likely will take greater internal heat. (If it's an issue at all). I previously owned a Discovery Tdi300, though I never fitted a HHO booster I did however add twin HiClones which in itself improved power, consumption (10% ish) gains & more interestingly the turbo came on around 200rpm sooner which was more beneficial (noticeable) in low range than on road. I held 100km/s up a hill where it would previously hold around 90km/s. I imagine with a HHO booster the gains would be more substantial.
So, if you have a diesel have you noticed similar improvements? |
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Roundtwoit
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Canberra ACT, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi all yet again from the south. I am still running my 99 AU on HHO after 15,000KM.
I want better KM and value for the HHO & LPG so I going up a size as well.
Has anyone out there gone to a taller tyre as well??
I am about to go to a 215/70/15 from 225/60/15.
I keep meaning to add Pics I will soon. |
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El Sledgo
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 15
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Location: Perth WA, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Roundtwoit wrote: | Hi all yet again from the south. I am still running my 99 AU on HHO after 15,000KM.
I want better KM and value for the HHO & LPG so I going up a size as well.
Has anyone out there gone to a taller tyre as well??
I am about to go to a 215/70/15 from 225/60/15.
I keep meaning to add Pics I will soon. |
I think your rolling circumference is still the same with those sizes you quoted. Changing tyre sizes to a different rolling circumference will skew your results as your car will be travelling more distance. |
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Roundtwoit
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Canberra ACT, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Well I did it. 1999 ford AU Fairmont
HHO running 2ltr/min at 11amps 12volt
225/70/15 - tyres
LPG & Petrol
102km/hr Actually 111km 2k rpm (B4 it was 112km at 2.2K rpm)
Yet to work out KM off 69ltr of LPG on HHO and LPG with the bigger tyres.
But it is looking good...(Prior to adding Taller legs)
LPG alone 405km per 69ltr
Petrol 530km per 70 ltr (Red light on for 80KM)
LPG-HHO 457km per 69ltr
Petrol-HHO 598km per 70ltr
LPG-HHO-talltyres ???km per 69ltr
Petrol-HHOtalltyres ???km per 70ltr
I will let you know.
The tall tyres are 11cm rolling diamiter larger than old tyres.
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Hoozadoctor
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Bendigo VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
I have built two cells, using stainless steel rods, they are using about 15amps each. I currently am using bicarbonate os soda as the electroliser. I am producing about 40Lt per hour, however I intend to use Sodium Hydroxide (castic Soda) in distilled water.
I am using this on my 1991 NC Fairlane V8 running on LPG (Sprintgas AEB 295) so far I have NOT had any increase in fuel economy. The problem is NOT the hydrogen it is the Electronics. I am think of throwing my AEB 295 away and using a manual device. I have most of the electronics solutions for modifying the sensors and if I was running on petrol could get about 40% better mileage.
MY mate has GOT a VU ute on petrol and he is getting around 40% better milage on country trips using the Hydrogen without doing any electrics. My other mate has a Proton Jumbuck running on petrol. When he first hooked the hydrogen up he got about 60 to 70% better fuel economy but after a day or so the computer decided to chuck a mental and readjust the mixtures
Anybody need info please let me know.
Oh .. does any body know where I can get hold of a scanner or somesort of programmer to fit the AEB 295 ?
Also looking for a scanner to suit my ODB, and a lambda unit.
Doc
Last edited by Hoozadoctor on Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:39 pm, edited 2 times in total |
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Hoozadoctor
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Bendigo VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Any help with the AEB 295 would also be greatly appreciated.
Doc |
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Stuart in OZ
Fordmods Newbie
Age:49
Posts: 1
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Location: Ballarat VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Roundtwoit wrote: | I have a question. That hopefully someone has already done some work on.
Is boosting you fuel with Hydrogen illegal in Australia at this time using this technuqie and does it void any insurance on any cars??
I have searched RTA ACT & NSW and can't find anything yet. |
HI..
I'm very new to this HHO thing but what i have read it seams to work OK.
Now to answer both questions, the first. As HHO is only a bosst the motor there are no standards here in Australia with lets us play around with it. I made a few phone calls and ended up at the Automotive Alternative Fuels Registration Board (AAFRB) which looks after this type of mod. As there are no standards they are happy for us to tinker but seggested that we fit a LPG shutoff switch.
On the second question. I rang AAMI as my car that will be HHOed is covered by them said they cover the car but not the HHO installation.
So all in all a good day on the phone, thank god for Skype.
Thanks
Stuart in OZ |
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madmurf
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Age:44
Posts: 24
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Location: Bunbury WA, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hi All
I have been on the side line for a while now but have now decided to post
my HHO results.
AU series 2 2000 sedan
EGAS (dedicated LPG)
I have a 2 cell setup running is series.
Single HHO gas line is conected to the brake boost vacuum inlet and PCV inlet.
Modfiied Cat O2 sensor. (Fools the computer into thiniing everything is AOK).
I travel 400Ks a day a 50% mix of city and hignway.
The HHO has been conected for 2 months with various little improvements.
With the new HHO system setup I get.
With me driving 12 to 12.5 Litres Per 100ks. Keep in mind I drive very fast (open road 130 to 140ks).
The wife drove the car for the day and got 9.4Litres per 100Ks.
The car is fueled at the same time from the same pump every day.
The other plus is this car starts 10 times easier and just soooo smooth.
I use the non mechanical person to test the gut feel (the wife ) and she just loves it.
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garthr
Fordmods Stock as a Rock
Age:46
Posts: 153
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Update.:- I finally got around to putting a micro-switch on the throttle to control the cells, works really well. Switches relay off at idle but anything over that and it is on.
Got a sw from jaycar that has both NO & NC terminals around $3 worth, just wired it to normally closed terminals.Mounted it on a bracket next to throttle mechanism so that lever is actuated whenever throttle returns to idle pos.
(still have it connected through toggle sw on dash in case i want to turn it off)
Mileage numbers are as good as ever so it has not affected mileage by shutting it off at idle. |
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mtbfarmer
Fordmods Newbie
Age:39
Posts: 8
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Garthr, I'm a bit of a sceptic on this but also open to the thought that the HHO gas could act as a catalyst and get more of the energy out of the petrol or lpg. Based on the energy of the HHO alone, any gain would be less that the additional drag caused by the alternator working harder to power the convertor.
Also, be careful, there are videos of some that went wrong. Seems to usually be when something corrodes in the top section of the convertor (where the gas is) and causes a spark. There is also a lot of talk about a flash back arrestor - sounds like a good idea.
Interested to hear how you go.
I have an XF that I might try it on if I ever get around to putting a new exhaust on it.
Cheers, Chris |
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Manstra
Fordmods Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Location: Sydney NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Garth,
I have read this forum right through with a lot of interest. I have the sewer pvc and picked up some stainless plates, about ready to start to put one of these together. I noticed in your last video on Youtube that you had the plates with the 2mm arcylic spacers, but it looked like you had bigger spacers in there too. Can you please advise me of :-
1) The complete size of your pvc tube.
2) The dimensions and number of stainless plates
3) the thickness of spacers and material they are made out of
4) the configuration you have used i.e. -nnn+
I have some plans for a PWM if you are interested. I bought the book "Run your car on water" but to initially get up and running I wanted to use your design, as the book one seems quite complex. I can forward you this book if you send me your email address.
Thanks,
Manstra |
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