Home |  Forums |  Search |  My Profile |  Chat  Photo Gallery |  Events Calendar |  Technical Documents  No messages |  New Posts |  Watched Topics |  Register   EF Climate Control + Airbag upgrade          Forum Index -> Interior Modifications Latest ratings Highest-ranked posts Highest-ranked topics Highest-ranked posters   Krytox Technical Contributor Age:29 Posts: 2644 Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Seaford State: VIC, Australia View User Gallery (2) Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: EF Climate Control + Airbag upgrade Looks like I'm jumping on the band wagon, Im about to do the climate control mod on a GLi Falcon (with abs). I have obtained a fairmont ghia dash, I just want to know if this is all i need (wire wise). I'm not installing the interior loom for the windows etc as I made my ownfor this. Will my current body loom be ok with the faimont dash loom installed? (I'll be putting a fairmont body loom in at another date for factory windows) As i said Im installing the entire faimont dash with the passenger airbag, it has the Green Hi series B.E.M, I'll remove the resistor on the cluster, and install an electric aerial, and adding the airbag to blanked resistor plug. is there likey to be any conflict with the hi bem? (yes i have the variable switch) cheers Andrew! Back to top Happy Moderator Age:35 Posts: 9946 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (4) Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: should be sweet to go mate!! good luck! Back to top Krytox Technical Contributor Age:29 Posts: 2644 Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Seaford State: VIC, Australia View User Gallery (2) Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: bah, went and got the entire loom for the windows. I want to 'be rid' of aftermarket wiring, I also obtained an EL CC module, I believe these are identical to the EF one (besides color)? is this right? ta, will take pic's! cheers Andrew Back to top snap0964 Technical Contributor Age:44 Posts: 3004 Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Coast NSW, Australia View User Gallery (10) Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Krytox wrote: I also obtained an EL CC module, I believe these are identical to the EF one (besides color)? is this right? Yep Back to top Krytox Technical Contributor Age:29 Posts: 2644 Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Seaford State: VIC, Australia View User Gallery (2) Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: The only EL parts are the EL CC module, and the ambient air sensor. All the rest of the parts are EF fairmont Ghia, including hi series BEM and Loom, Back to top arm79 Cruise Moderator Age:29 Posts: 3606 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Westside VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: snap0964 wrote: Krytox wrote: I also obtained an EL CC module, I believe these are identical to the EF one (besides color)? is this right? Yep Nope.. They are different internally. As the vaccum soleonoid pack attached to the heater box is different between EF and EL. EL vaccum packs are marked 96DA and have a blue cover. EF vaccum packs are marked 94DA and have a black cover. If you use an EL CC module with an EF vaccum pack (and vice versa), it cant control the air direction properly. But like anything there is a way around it... When you get it done Andrew, try it first. You wont blow anything up. If it doesnt work properly, let me know and I'll tell you the trick. And I'm hoping yours is an EF2... I cant remember. If not, it wont have the right airbag ECU or the extra wires for the PAB. If it is an EF2, it should have everything there. And I think that the engine ECU is different for cars with climate control. Although I think no one has noticed this before, and hasnt caused a problem with any of the conversions. Back to top GTBob Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:70 Posts: 1230 Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Location: Tallebudgera, GOLD COAST QLD, Australia View User Gallery (7) Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Just finished doing this myself good work. Back to top snap0964 Technical Contributor Age:44 Posts: 3004 Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Coast NSW, Australia View User Gallery (10) Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:04 pm    Post subject: arm79 wrote: Nope.. They are different internally."] I've checked over the EF & EL circuit cards, and I couldn't see any physical difference, but if they are different, my mistake. arm79 wrote: As the vaccum soleonoid pack attached to the heater box is different between EF and EL.If you use an EL CC module with an EF vaccum pack (and vice versa), it cant control the air direction properly. But like anything there is a way around it... "] The only difference I can see on the black vac sol unit in the doco is that the blue and tan vaccy lines are vice versa compared with the blue unit. If this is the difference then yes control will be affected as tan controls screen/floor, and blue controls one of the front flaps. Would the way around it be simply swapping around the tan and blue hoses? Am I on the right track? Let us all know as I'd say the info would be handy to know now rather than later. Back to top arm79 Cruise Moderator Age:29 Posts: 3606 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Westside VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: snap0964 wrote: arm79 wrote: Nope.. They are different internally."] I've checked over the EF & EL circuit cards, and I couldn't see any physical difference, but if they are different, my mistake. They arent different bu the logic is slightly. snap0964 wrote: arm79 wrote: As the vaccum soleonoid pack attached to the heater box is different between EF and EL.If you use an EL CC module with an EF vaccum pack (and vice versa), it cant control the air direction properly. But like anything there is a way around it... The only difference I can see on the black vac sol unit in the doco is that the blue and tan vaccy lines are vice versa compared with the blue unit. If this is the difference then yes control will be affected as tan controls screen/floor, and blue controls one of the front flaps. Would the way around it be simply swapping around the tan and blue hoses? Am I on the right track? Let us all know as I'd say the info would be handy to know now rather than later. The vaccum lines are exactly the same on EF and EL. The difference is in the control for the face vent solenoid. On the EF units and vaccum packs I think the solenoid is a N/O, and the CC unit uses a ground signal to shut it to allow airflow to other directions, and a 12v signal to open it. On EL units, the solenoid is a N/C type, and uses a ground signal to open the solenoid and a 12v signal to close it. Im pretty sure this is the way it works. It was over 12 months ago that I worked out what the difference was. So if you use an EL unit on an EF vaccum pack, it will open the solenoid when it shouldnt, and close it when it shouldn't. So when you select anything but face, will push air out the face level vents. When you select face, it will push air out of the front demister vents. Back to top snap0964 Technical Contributor Age:44 Posts: 3004 Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Coast NSW, Australia View User Gallery (10) Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Now I get the picture. I'm using blue soleniod units for both my installs, so I'll be doing some thorough testing before the dash gets properly installed, with EF & EL units. If I can I'll put together some detail on these differences, as they don't seem to be documented anywhere. So thanks for bringing it up - particularly for troubleshooting benefit. Back to top arm79 Cruise Moderator Age:29 Posts: 3606 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Westside VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject: Of course they arent documented anywhere, this is Ford we are talking about. But in reality, I think whenever someone does this conversion, they get hold of all of the parts from the same car. Rarely piece by piece. So no one has ever noticed it. Actually there was one bloke a little while back who did something like this, and didn't believe me that the units were different, but had the exact problems found when you put an EL unit into an EF. I have a PM from Krytox saying he as a blue covered vaccum pack with a 94DA part number, not a 96DA part number. Ive never seen a 94DA with a blue cover, but I suppose it doesnt mean Ford did something fun. In which case, I would probably take more notice of the part number than the colour of the unit, unless it doesnt have the part number sticker. Back to top snap0964 Technical Contributor Age:44 Posts: 3004 Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Coast NSW, Australia View User Gallery (10) Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: arm79 wrote: Of course they arent documented anywhere, this is Ford we are talking about. Yeah I was actually meaning the CC doco. arm79 wrote: But in reality, I think whenever someone does this conversion, they get hold of all of the parts from the same car. Rarely piece by piece. So no one has ever noticed it. All the installs on the forum have been like this - so that's what I thought also. arm79 wrote: Actually there was one bloke a little while back who did something like this, and didn't believe me that the units were different, but had the exact problems found when you put an EL unit into an EF I'd assume DF/NF & DL/NL units will behave the same way. arm79 wrote: I have a PM from Krytox saying he as a blue covered vaccum pack with a 94DA part number, not a 96DA part number. Ive never seen a 94DA with a blue cover, but I suppose it doesnt mean Ford did something fun. In which case, I would probably take more notice of the part number than the colour of the unit, unless it doesnt have the part number sticker. Both mine are 96DA blues. Installing CC to an XH is a bit of a challenge, so another's not going to stop me too much. I take it your way around it as you mentioned previously would be to swap vaccy hoses over ??? Back to top arm79 Cruise Moderator Age:29 Posts: 3606 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Westside VIC, Australia View User Gallery (0) Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Sorry... Should have realised you meant the climate control doco... I just kinda came out of a 3.5 hour meeting, and my brain is all mush. Yes NF/DF and NL/DL stuff will behave the same. They are the same units. The fix has to do with adding a 5 pin relay just behind the CC unit to reverse the signal. I cant remember the exact wiring colours and how to do it... But a quick check of my manual will tell me, and I can draw something up. But I would just try put it in first and see what happens, before making some cuts into the loom. Back to top snap0964 Technical Contributor Age:44 Posts: 3004 Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Coast NSW, Australia View User Gallery (10) Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:06 pm    Post subject: Yeah thanks Adrian, I intended to do as you said just check first. The changeover relay should be easy enough to do - I've done similar for a clutch cruise switch. Thanks again for the info . . . . Back to top Krytox Technical Contributor Age:29 Posts: 2644 Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Seaford State: VIC, Australia View User Gallery (2) Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Climate control Installed! I think they should be called Climax Control, one awesome upgrade, probably the most rewarding thing i have ever done to the car 1: its not that time consuming 2: its pretty darn simple 3: makes the aircon pump longer and better controlled and give you longer cold air! It took longer to clean all the crap check bulbs. A big thank-you to all that has replied giving me information! Cheers Ford Mods! Andrew Back to top banarcus Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:34 Posts: 496 Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Location: Kurri Kurri NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Firstly, I'm not a thread miner normally but this thread has plently of useful info in it and it applies to my problem so here goes. When I converted my ED Fairmont with an EF Fairmont interior, my climate control doesn't function properly. The problem is very similar to what arm79 says about the incompatibility between the EF and EL climate control modules and solonoid vacuum blocks. Whenever I select a face vent, the air only comes out of the floor and screen. Whenever anything else is selected, the air comes out of the face and/or floor. I am certain that both components came out of the same car but I'm not 100%. Also, I'm using the blue vacuum solonoid block with the 94DA EF sticker on it. It could be out of a series 2 Ghia as the car had gold 4.0 stickers on the doors. How do I use a relay to reverse the signals going from the climate control unit to the solonoid block as discussed here? Back to top banarcus Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:34 Posts: 496 Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Location: Kurri Kurri NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Does this mean that I only need to convert the output on the face level signal wire from the climate control? If this is the case, which face level wire as I believe there is a cold(red + dark blue wires) one and a hot(blue wire) one? I'm 100% certain that all hoses are where they are supposed to be on the vacuum solonoid. Perhaps, I should bite the bullet and remove my dash and swap the solonoid over. Where's the challenge in that Back to top banarcus Fordmods - Getting Side Ways Age:34 Posts: 496 Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Location: Kurri Kurri NSW, Australia View User Gallery (15) Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: For the record, I borrowed a black solonoid from another EF and plugged it in. I can confirm that my vacuum hoses are 100% correct in what they are connected to as the climate control functioned perfectly. It seems that the 94DA blue EF2 solonoid is an EL solonoid in disguise. I'm one of the very few punters who have been caught out! Back to top Happy Moderator Age:35 Posts: 9946 Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Location: Perth WA, Australia View User Gallery (4) Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: some of the ef2 stuff might have been el hybrids? 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