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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
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Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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 Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: RD's EBII engine upgrade |
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I intend to use this thread for the entire conversion from planning to final feedback etc. I intend to sell the XG, and get a digital camera.
I have spent a lot of time on the car knowing the engine may need replacing, and am now confident it needs replacing. There is oil near the main bearing, oil at the bellhousing opening - looks like engine oil, there is sometimes a weird screeching sound when i start it(?), and there is a deep knocking sound at idle. When i picked it up from the auction storage the oil was very low and the engine and underside was covered in oil. The previous owner had also spilt heaps of oil over the rocker cover when filling, perhaps they got tired of doing it. How long might it last?
I am doing an AU motor full conversion.
Here's an updated list (more updates may come):
- standard AU motor ~110,000kms 6mths parts & labour warranty . . . [$450]
- AU std alloy sump
- AU harmonic balancer
- AU bellhousing . . . [$95]
- EB engine mounts
- modify and strengthen crossmember, add sump guard
- EB starter motor
- EF/EL a/c compressor with modified tubing . . . [$150 + tubing]
- AU/EL p/s pump
- EL or AU alternator?
- EF-BF waterpump
- EBII distributor
- EBII MAP sensor
- EBII fuel pump
- AU lower intake manifold
- EL upper intake manifold
- upper/lower intake manifold gasket?
- adapt LPG mixer to manifold inlet
- BA crosspipe, flextube, adapt mixer, & adapt bolts to top of BBM
- BA airbox, modify guard to fit and adapt bolts, BA snorkel . . . [total BA intake $85]
- AU XR8 snorkel better?
- AU injectors
- AU fuel pressure regulator
- fit smallhole gasket to ISC
- modify EBII loom
- EL throttle cable . . . [$30]
- EL accelerator pedal assembly . . . [$30]
- adapt the heater hose that goes from the pipe near the manifold through the firewall
- connect cut ends of EL manifold fuel hoses to EBII fixed lines using extra hose and hose clamps
- EL ECU 6cyl auto (60 pin) . . . [$50]
- smartlock bypass module (car not smartlock) . . . [$79?]
- wire up bbm runner vacuum switch
- wire up thermos
- wire up knock sensor
- EBII radiator
- AU or EL thermostat housing top alloy pipe (for rad hose)
- EBII thermostat housing
- EBII thermostat housing to block gasket
- EL thermostat and thermostat gasket
- EBII upper radiator hose adapted to suit smaller top alloy pipe
- EBII lower radiator hose adapted to suit smaller water pump pipe
- secondhand EF/EL thermofans including relays/fuses etc . . . [$85]
Questions:
- is there a temp sensor in the EL and/or AU block? And if so, does that mean adding wires from that to the EL ECU?
- is the AU knock sensor compatible with the EL ECU?
Updated again 25th June 2008
Updated again 2nd July 2008
Again 10th July 2008
Again, again . . .
Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:07 pm, edited 3 times in total |
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Steady ED
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:21 am Post subject: |
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-Fuel pump will be fine. Newy can only hurt the wallet though 
-Standard rad will be fine. Just get a new EF/EL rad, so the bottom hose matches. Saves d**k around with adaptors.
-Yep EL upper hose if you are using EF/EL/AU upper thermostat housing.
-As above, EF/EL hose to match EF/EL/AU/BA waterpump
-Second hand or new, the second hand genuine ones are probably better if you can find some for a decent price.
-Leave stock intake IMO, I'm not a massive beleiver in d**k around with it. Gains vs effort and all that. Just get an AU XR8 snorkel.
-Engine mounts will need to be EA-ED to match K Frame
-EA-EL same type coolant temp sensor, if thats what you mean?
-You mean whether to use a coolant temp sensor or not? Yes use one if thats what you mean.
-EA-EL same MAP, EBII will be fine with EL ECU.
-EA-BF same starter motor. |
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knowsfords
Fordmods - Smokin em up
Posts: 281
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Location: Brisbane QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Like Steady ED said, the EB II will be fine with the EL ecu. EBII had smartlock. |
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hot-04l
Fordmods Parts Gopher
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| not all eb2 had smartlock was only from sept 92 onwards. |
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BenJ
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Correct, my EBII (April 92) does not have smartlock and I needed to get a smartlock bypass module.
I have an EL ECU. PM me for a price.
Cheers
BenJ |
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Paulmac
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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Location: Central Coast NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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On the question of how long the EB might last, with the deep knocking and what appears to be a blown rear main seal, I'd be counting the hours not weeks. It may last that long but more likely to let let go any moment. Don't get too far from home!!
Don't forget one of the heater hoses through the firewall is different from an EB and the hose from the coolant bottle to the side of the radiator is different, though it can be modified with a sharp knife.
Read BenJ's thread re. the simple fuel lines mod to retain the screw on connections at the BBM. When you order your engine, see if the seller will leave the fuel lines to the manifold on for you.
Use the 'Thermostat' temp sender if your using EL t/stat housing. Ask Troyman, if he doesn't join in.
Agree with Steady_ED BUT again refer to Ben's thread in the Garage forum for modifications to the airbox that work [with that snorkel].
PM Bunter re. the fans, he may relent and allow a courier pick up, unless you're going to be in Sydney and can pick them up yourself. Delegate's not that easy to ship to is it, so a lot depends on the end cost. LOL
Good list and good research, congratulations.
Cheers,
Mac |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
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Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'd just like to say thanks to everyone so far for the excellent responses. It makes a big difference, and is much appreciated.
I'll work through each one now. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 479
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Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Steady ED wrote: | | -Fuel pump will be fine. Newy can only hurt the wallet though |
Okay, EBII fuel pump it is.
| Quote: | | -Standard rad will be fine. Just get a new EF/EL rad, so the bottom hose matches. Saves d**k around with adaptors. |
Okay, EBII radiator can be used. But are there radiator upgrade options to consider? I might be doing things with this car that are unusually hard work and am concerned these fords don't have as much reserve as many other cars.
| Quote: | | -Yep EL upper hose if you are using EF/EL/AU upper thermostat housing. |
Okay. Do i have the choice of using an AU thermostat housing with EL upper rad hose, or an EBII thermostat housing with EBII upper hose? If so what are the pro's and con's? Clearance? Accessibility?
| Quote: | | -As above, EF/EL hose to match EF/EL/AU/BA waterpump |
Okay, EF/EL lower rad hose.
| Quote: | | -Second hand or new, the second hand genuine ones are probably better if you can find some for a decent price. |
I have two EB radiators but both seem clogged. I got my XG one done professionally recently and it looks fairly easy as long as i can find something thin yet stiff enough. I might try doing one of the EB ones myself, the only risk i see is if a leak in the seal to the tank develops unnoticed. I could probably get new seals from the bloke that did my XG one.
| Quote: | | -Leave stock intake IMO, I'm not a massive beleiver in d**k around with it. Gains vs effort and all that. Just get an AU XR8 snorkel. |
The stock intake is EBII and therefore unsuitable for BBM. So i have the choice of any intake that works. I think i have seen some use BA intakes in these models, at least from the manifold to and including the box. My impression is these flow better than earlier versions? Remember i have a mixer in there, so better flow to counteract that is probably good.
| Quote: | | -Engine mounts will need to be EA-ED to match K Frame |
Excellent, EBII engine mounts are the go.
| Quote: | -EA-EL same type coolant temp sensor, if thats what you mean?
-You mean whether to use a coolant temp sensor or not? Yes use one if thats what you mean. |
What i'm not sure about is, is there a temp sensor in the EL and/or AU block? And if so, does that mean adding wires from that to the EL ECU?
| Quote: | | -EA-EL same MAP, EBII will be fine with EL ECU. |
Okay, so the EBII MAP is good for EL ECU and AU motor.
| Quote: | | -EA-BF same starter motor. |
Excellent, have two EBII starter motors. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 479
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| BenJ wrote: | | Correct, my EBII (April 92) does not have smartlock and I needed to get a smartlock bypass module. |
Yes, mine is pre-smartlock. I'm glad actually, except for having to get and fit a bypass. Although it still has electric powered door locks, scary if the battery goes flat or i lock the keys in the car away from home. I think i looked the bypasses up on the internet and made them a favourite, from memory they are made by the same mob that also makes shiftkits(?).
| Quote: | | I have an EL ECU. PM me for a price. |
Okay, thanks for the offer, i may be getting close to starting my purchases and may contact you then. I recall when "black boxes" were first fitted to cars and everyone said people were nuking them jumpstarting and they were $1000 plus to replace. Now i see them advertised on the internet for $20! Screws my head. I'd rather a better source than ebay though. I may be able to get virtually everything from a reputable wrecker i know, but i don't know at this stage. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 479
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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double posted (?)
Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 479
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
View User Gallery (5)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Paulmac wrote: | | On the question of how long the EB might last, with the deep knocking and what appears to be a blown rear main seal, I'd be counting the hours not weeks. It may last that long but more likely to let let go any moment. Don't get too far from home!! |
Bugger. I wasn't sure whether there might be a big failure or just ever higher oil consumption. Sometimes it sounds okay, the knocking varies and more often than not you don't notice it. Although, at the moment it seems like the oil might go from the top to the bottom of the full mark within a tank of fuel.
| Quote: | | Don't forget one of the heater hoses through the firewall is different from an EB . . . |
This is new to me. Can you tell me more?
| Quote: | | . . . and the hose from the coolant bottle to the side of the radiator is different, though it can be modified with a sharp knife. |
Does it just need shortening?
| Quote: | | Read BenJ's thread re. the simple fuel lines mod to retain the screw on connections at the BBM. When you order your engine, see if the seller will leave the fuel lines to the manifold on for you. |
On the EBII the fuel lines to the fuel rail are held in place with hose clamps. Is the AU different? Or are you talking about the hoses to the carbon cannister?
| Quote: | | Use the 'Thermostat' temp sender if your using EL t/stat housing. Ask Troyman, if he doesn't join in. |
I have clarified my question in relation to the temp senders in a previous post. Maybe you have a response to that?
You mention an EL thermostat housing. I actually have a spare one of those i could use. So i will have EBII, EL and AU housings at my disposal. Which do you think would be most suitable?
Some more questions have arisen:
- I have a full kit of spare EL accessories and brackets from my EL motor. Are all of these interchangeable with AU accessories and brackets? This is no big deal as i will get AU accessories, but it's good to know.
- Will the AU p/s pump connect straight to the EBII?
| Quote: | | Agree with Steady_ED BUT again refer to Ben's thread in the Garage forum for modifications to the airbox that work [with that snorkel]. |
I made comments about the intake in a previous post. Maybe you have a response to that? I know Nigel might have a suitable setup. Also i recall fordmans. ?
| Quote: | | PM Bunter re. the fans, he may relent and allow a courier pick up, unless you're going to be in Sydney and can pick them up yourself. Delegate's not that easy to ship to is it, so a lot depends on the end cost. LOL |
Being so far away creates complex logistics . . . . . . . , but i'm slowly learning where and how to get stuff. I'd rather sell the XG and then do the conversion, but then i wouldn't be able to drive anywhere and pick up any extra parts i need along the way. No amount of planning will see me have everything i need before i start, by my thinking.
| Quote: | | Good list and good research, congratulations. |
Thanks. I hope it's of value to others as well. |
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Paulmac
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:61
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Location: Central Coast NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Firstly, I'm not that familiar with AU engines, only EB2-EL.
Of the two heater hoses that go through the firewall, the one that goes to the pipe near the manifold is different on a BBM engine to the log manifold cars. A check at a spare parts shop will clarify that issue.
You'll have to use at least the upper half of an EL BBM for compatibility reasons and if you examine an EL engine you'll see the fuel inlet and return lines are attached with screw on fittings to the fuel rail and pressure regulator. BenJ and I found it much easier to attach these before fitting the EL engine and attaching the loose ends to the 'static' metal fuel lines on the chassis from below the car.
The hose from the coolant reservoir:- Depends on what radiator you use. The EB attaches on the side of the radiator, the EL from the rear. You can cut an EB hose to fit an EL radiator but not vice versa.
I was referring to improving the EECV air filter box. I'm told the BA's are better but have never used one. I only know BenJ's mods have improved his car's airflow and performance noticeably.
Cheers,
Mac |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 479
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Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Paulmac wrote: | | Of the two heater hoses that go through the firewall, the one that goes to the pipe near the manifold is different on a BBM engine to the log manifold cars. A check at a spare parts shop will clarify that issue. |
Okay. So maybe i'll need to get a longer hose or something? When i took my EL manifold off the EL engine i kept everything together as much as possible. It's pretty much still all connected, even the rubber and metal heater hoses. Maybe it will come together fine.
| Quote: | | You'll have to use at least the upper half of an EL BBM for compatibility reasons and if you examine an EL engine you'll see the fuel inlet and return lines are attached with screw on fittings to the fuel rail and pressure regulator. BenJ and I found it much easier to attach these before fitting the EL engine and attaching the loose ends to the 'static' metal fuel lines on the chassis from below the car. |
Okay. I've just checked the manifold and know exactly what you mean. Thankfully the wrecker looked after me by cutting the fixed pipes before the quick disconnects. I'll check to see if these will just connect up to my EBII's fixed pipes?
| Quote: | | The hose from the coolant reservoir:- Depends on what radiator you use. The EB attaches on the side of the radiator, the EL from the rear. You can cut an EB hose to fit an EL radiator but not vice versa. |
Okay.
| Quote: | | I was referring to improving the EECV air filter box. I'm told the BA's are better but have never used one. I only know BenJ's mods have improved his car's airflow and performance noticeably. |
Okay. I seem to recall people having to do a minor mod to get the BA box in, someone used a hammer i think.
I wonder if one of the major factors in deciding which thermostat housing and upper radiator hose to use is clearance for the snorkel. Since i'll be using a bbm filter box, that might be the reason i should use an EL or AU thermostat housing and upper rad hose.
My current plan is to get stuff from Canberra. I am developing a relationship with a wrecker there. I imagine prices in Melbourne and Sydney are lower. I am located halfway between them so can go either way, but my thinking at the moment is it's not worth it. |
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BenJ
Cruise Moderator
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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If you are using the EB/ED type instrument cluster, you will need to swap in the lower thermostat housing from the EA-ED engine as the EF/EL lower thermostat housings do not have the facility for the extra plugs to send info to the temp guage and the ealier auto climate control.
BenJ |
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Paulmac
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:61
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Location: Central Coast NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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R_D,
As Ben said re. lwr thermo housing.
If you've still got both heater hoses attached to the EL engine you'll soon see the difference in one to the EB.
Use the two upper fuel hose clamps from the EB to attach the cut metal ends of the fuel lines to the chassis pipes using an intermediate piece of fuel hose. I shortened one of the existing flexible EB2 lines to fashion these joiners. Very simple fix and you get to retain the quick release joins.
Cheers,
Mac |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
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Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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MOVED TO TOP
Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:05 pm, edited 5 times in total |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 479
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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A few days ago i took my spare EB radiator apart and cleaned it out then put it back together. I decided to do this because i knew both of my EB radiators were clogged, and when i watched a professional do my XG one i figured it was money for jam.
My EB radiator had a copper core and plastic tanks. To take it apart all i had to do was use a screwdriver to bend back the copper holding tabs, and pull the tanks off.
The professional guy i watched used a thin long metal object that looked just like a dipstick to unclog the cores. So i checked my dipsticks and found that the EB dipstick was too thick but my EL one was okay, only it wasn't long enough to poke all the way through. I still used it but maybe i didn't really need to, plus it got scratched. I then used my air compressor powered degreaser gun with water in it, a gurney would have been better but i don't have one, directing the spray down each core, and it worked fine. I could see discoloured water coming out then clear as i cleaned each one out.
In retrospect i probably should have used new seals when putting it back together. Living in a semi-remote area i decided to just use black silicone on top of the old seal. I am told silicon acts as a slippery lubricant which can mean the seal shifts out of place, also i was told it doesn't seal all that well to plastic. Anyway, all i then had to do was bend the tabs back down, i used pliers.
Professionals then pressure test them. I could and might get this done, but i'll see.
Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 479
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Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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I was still using the EB to drive around till last monday. I had progressively thickened the oil and it stopped leaking. And i only noticed knocking when the engine was idling on an upslope, which probably meant the front main bearing had less oil lubricating it.
Then, when i looked at it on tuesday, i could see coolant had leaked from the head gasket. It had run hot a few times because of the radiator being clogged, and because i knew the motor was stuffed anyway i didn't do much about it.
Today i disconnected and unbolted most of what is required to remove the motor and gearbox. |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
Posts: 479
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Location: delegate NSW, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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The motor and gearbox are now out of the car, the motor is mostly stripped, and the engine bay is degreased.
Approximately 1/3 of the coolant channels through the block to the head were rusted shut at the head gasket.
When i put my puller on the harmonic balancer, all that came off was the outer ring. Any suggestions on how to now remove the inner ring? I am just dismantling the old motor for storage.
The rear main seal doesn't in fact appear to have been leaking, making me wonder whether the oil i saw coming out of the bellhousing was actually auto trans oil. I wasn't able to check the auto input shaft seal because as soon as i started pulling things apart the torque converter leaked oil over the seal and inner bellhousing. Max Ellery tells me stuff-all about what is involved in replacing the input shaft seal. Can anyone please advise? |
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TROYMAN
Technical Contributor
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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you seem to have most of it covered..
but if your using the ef/au water pump the outlet is smaller than the eb one..
so you need to use a ef/el radiator or at least the ef tank as the bottom hose on the eb is larger than ef/el you can rig up an adaptor to go from small hose to a larger hose but if your still sourcing parts it would be best to get the ef/el radiator... |
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