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EBII_93
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Posts: 64
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 Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: v8 5.7l holden injectors on a eb 4.0l? |
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will these fit
anyone done this before? |
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nightstalker
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| The answer is ...why???? |
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EDXR8
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:29
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Not 100% sure but I think they run very similar injectors so may fit. You will need to modify the EEC though to cope with the larger injectors. But as nightstalker said, why? Are you running a turbo? |
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EBII_93
Fordmods Parts Gopher
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| no, just got them cheap and mine are shot so i thort y notb |
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EDXR8
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| EBII_93 wrote: | | no, just got them cheap and mine are shot so i thort y notb |
Problem if that you need EEC mods to run them which will be expensive. |
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Bert
Fordmods - Smokin em up
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope you got them cheap because they are 775 Blue tops which are suprise suprise Magna injectors. They are only worth about $30ea 2nd hand. Also unless you are making more than 160rwhp you don't need larger injectors even then you can band-aid it by upping the reg pressure to ~190rwhp. |
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Lukieman
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:03 am Post subject: |
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To my knowledge of the ECU, and the only way it controls the injectors is by pulse width... if the other sensors in the engine are indicating that the mixture is too rich it would just shorten the pulse width.. am I correct???
So, really, injector size wouldn't make to much of a difference, if any as it will only inject as much fuel as it needs for clean combustion.
The only reason I could see its downfall if the mixture is still rich @ at the ECUs shortest pulse width... but that would be pushing extreme injector specs..
Or am I just talking out my a**???  |
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Waggin
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Lukieman wrote: | To my knowledge of the ECU, and the only way it controls the injectors is by pulse width... if the other sensors in the engine are indicating that the mixture is too rich it would just shorten the pulse width.. am I correct???
So, really, injector size wouldn't make to much of a difference, if any as it will only inject as much fuel as it needs for clean combustion.
The only reason I could see its downfall if the mixture is still rich @ at the ECUs shortest pulse width... but that would be pushing extreme injector specs..
Or am I just talking out my a**??? |
If only it was that simple.
The EEC has limits as to how far it can compensate. It can't even keep a good mixture on my EF 4L with 24lb/hr injectors! |
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EDXR8
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| Thats it, ithe EEC only has enough adjustment in it to compensate for small things like temp, Barometric Pressure changes, engine wear etc. It can not adjust for larger injectors. |
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raiki
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Add to that it only adjusts while in closed loop mode, after all without feedback it doesn't know it needs to adjust.
Closed loop is enabled after you have been 'cruising' for a time period. The definition of 'cruising' and the time are not well defined in any of the manuals. |
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4.9 EF Futura
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| raiki wrote: | Add to that it only adjusts while in closed loop mode, after all without feedback it doesn't know it needs to adjust.
Closed loop is enabled after you have been 'cruising' for a time period. The definition of 'cruising' and the time are not well defined in any of the manuals. |
Good call. Even if EEC could adjust pulse width by that much in closed loop, as soon as the foot went to the floor it would revert to open loop maps and assume that stock injectors were present.
AFAIK injector size is a scalar figure within EEC maps and hence, if you could change that one value, the rest should take care of itself. If only we could change that one value....
BTW Adrian from what ive seen through HEGO output, closed loop mode kicks in after seconds as opposed to minutes, of course startup takes some time depending on ambient temp. Sometimes after healthy amount of boost it can take 20sec to revert back to closed loop, sometimes HEGO starts switching immediately after foot comes of throttle.... ?!?! |
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EDXR8
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| raiki wrote: | Add to that it only adjusts while in closed loop mode, after all without feedback it doesn't know it needs to adjust.
Closed loop is enabled after you have been 'cruising' for a time period. The definition of 'cruising' and the time are not well defined in any of the manuals. |
Yeah thats another good point, it only adjusts in closed loop. BTW closed loop is the default of the EEC and will run in it until engine load exceeds 75% or throttle position is above 2.5V (from memory) for a time of 2 seconds, then the EEC goes into open loop. |
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Bert
Fordmods - Smokin em up
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| EDXR8 wrote: | | Yeah thats another good point, it only adjusts in closed loop. BTW closed loop is the default of the EEC and will run in it until engine load exceeds 75% or throttle position is above 2.5V (from memory) for a time of 2 seconds, then the EEC goes into open loop. |
Thats kinda right because it will look at the MAP sensor as its primary load sensor. When it goes above a certian kpa it rolls over to open loop. All the TPS is used for is for acceleration fuel enrichment and some timing functions. The only time the TPS would be a primary load sensor is when you tune in Alpha-N, meaning the ecu only works on values based on TPS and RPM. Alpha-N is virtually racing car stuff.
I know this because I use Kalmaker/Delco which is very similar in function to EECV. |
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EDXR8
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually on the Ford EECIV & V, if either the TPS value or load calcualtions (either via MAP or MAF) go over the specified amount, the EEC will go into open loop. On my setup, I mainly use the TPS value to trigger open loop, not load calculations. |
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Waggin
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| on the EEC's, isnt load based on MAP, TPS and RPM ? |
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MrLandau
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:02 am Post subject: |
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From the tests Jim from Pro-M did - closed loop is not acheived until the oxygen sensor reach 190 degrees - which is why you have the off idle stumbles when the car is cold and given a bootfull.
Shane |
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EDXR8
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| MrLandau wrote: | From the tests Jim from Pro-M did - closed loop is not acheived until the oxygen sensor reach 190 degrees - which is why you have the off idle stumbles when the car is cold and given a bootfull.
Shane |
Yeah that is correct. the EEC uses a startup fuel table for the first 45 seconds, then the open loop table until the coolant temp has reached 180 degrees.
| Waggin wrote: | | on the EEC's, isnt load based on MAP, TPS and RPM ? |
Load is calculated using MAP or MAF reading, intake air temperature and rpm. |
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CHEF
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I have 550cc injectors and my EAs eec wouldnt let the motor start... just flooded the motor, but they are alot bigger than the holden ones here |
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