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JWM
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Age:16
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 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:11 am Post subject: What type of batteries to use... |
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Hi, Just wondering what type of batteries I should be looking at for installing into my boot?
My plan is to run a few amps for a few hours without the ignition on and I will be makeing something to disconect the battery in the engine bay from my audio system so it can still start the car, but re-conect so the batteries in the boot can charge... So I need batteries that dont mind being discharged then re-charged often... I need high amp/hour batteries...
...and batteries that dont need venting or something???
Also, how much power to car amps draw?
1000watt RMS amp?
400watt RMS?
Not talking about the $40 amps, more like jaycar amps at >$400.
Just need an idea roughly what they draw so I can workout what I need...
As you can probably tell, I have no real experience with this stuff, although I am confident with electronics... just not car stuff yet 
Cheers,
Jake |
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Hybrid34
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:19
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Im no whiz at this stuff,
But I run a pretty powerful system (not like show cars), but I've got;
- 800watt Alpine v12 4 channel
- 600watt Alpine v12 monoblock
- 2 x Alpine type S SUbs 15" rated 300RMS each
- 4 tweeters
- 4 3x2 150watt pioneer speakers
- Tv tuner
- Dvd Stacker
- Cd stacker
- 7" Dvd Screen
- Soon another 2 screens (head rests)
A sh*t load of lights inthe car (fairlane with extra lighting)
And i can tell you it drains a heap outta the battery,
If you can afford it, go Optima Yellow Top Deep Cycle (Dry cell), its good for instaling a bttery in a boot or inside the cabbin as its not liquid...
If you can't, exide make a good battery, along with centrey.
I've got a GSYUASA 480CCA, (just brought), seems pretty good.
For a powerful stero system get a capacitor (bascailly creates a massive charge and sends it out to the amps, puts less strain on your alt and you've got respsonsive power)...
Also get a good battery, don't go any lower thhan 450cca, and try to get a 80amp - 150 amp battery.
(DON"T GET RACV batteries, they've changed hands to the purple colors that are made in Korea, very bad rateing)
Hope this helps a bit
- Ash |
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Hybrid34
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:19
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: |
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..Oh forgot to Add,
get a nice altenator, pref 110Amp..I've learn't it the hard way n killed my yellow top.
If your running a heavy load, a powerful Alt will assist in the power your draining, and it will help the life of ur altenator and battery
Cheers
- Ash
Last edited by Hybrid34 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:22 am, edited 3 times in total |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: |
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I use an Optima Yellow top. Great deep cycle battery, and has a huge RC (reserve current) so last a while.
+ high power density
+ deep cycle (doesn't mind being flattened - don't leave it dead for too long however)
+ gel acid (leak proof)
+ sealed (can be installed in cabin)
- heavy
- expensive
As for your power coupling, try these from Jaycar, good for 500A...
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SF2245
Also use some heavy duty power cable, as once you reconnect the flat-ish batteries they'll want to suck ALOT of amps from the main battery. 0 Gauge and a 200A fuse would be the go. |
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twr7cx
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:22
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Location: Hobart TAS, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Optima Blue Top here - was cheaper than the Yellow. |
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JWM
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Age:16
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Location: townsvile QLD, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Cool, thanks for the help.
Anyone know how many amps a car amp will draw? my guess would be under 50amps but no idea really...
If no one knows I guess I can just experiment and find out how long the batteries last
Oh and thanks for that link to the switch, I was wondering how I was gonna go about disconecting the batteries  |
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nicco
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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i'' let you do the sums on the power drawn:
P=VI
P = Power (watts)
V = Voltage (volts)
I = Current (amps)
You will want to include an efficiency too. from pyroays tutes and my memory, it about 65% for an A/B amp, and about 80% for a class D.
P=VI/n
n = efficiency as a decimal (ie: 0.65) |
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nicco
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:21
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| oh and to add to that for you, car voltage estimate at 13.8v. |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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depends on the amp. Find out it's RMS rating, mutliply by 12, and add 20% That'll be a worst case draw.
Or check the fuses on it, that's what the maker thinks is worst failure case.
In reality it'll be much less, because you won't be pumping it 100% with a test tone. Real music takes less power to reproduce than test tones. |
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JWM
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Age:16
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah sweet as, thanks for all the help guys |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| JWM wrote: | | If no one knows I guess I can just experiment and find out how long the batteries last |
Despite the common impression most deep cycle batteries aren't designed to be flattened. Normal car batteries are designed for a quick burst, which might take them to say 90%, and then be recharged. Deep cycle batteries are usually designed to be discharged slowly, to no less than say 70% capacity, and then ideally slowly recharged. Deep cycles will handle full discharge better than normal types but it will still dramatically reduce their lifespan.
I don't know about Optima batteries. Where can you get them? |
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data_mine
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Specialist battery shops - Battery World for example.
or
Car audio shops (not talking your JB HiFi's or Strathfields etc.) |
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JWM
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Age:16
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| relaxed_diplomacy wrote: | | JWM wrote: | | If no one knows I guess I can just experiment and find out how long the batteries last |
Despite the common impression most deep cycle batteries aren't designed to be flattened. Normal car batteries are designed for a quick burst, which might take them to say 90%, and then be recharged. Deep cycle batteries are usually designed to be discharged slowly, to no less than say 70% capacity, and then ideally slowly recharged. Deep cycles will handle full discharge better than normal types but it will still dramatically reduce their lifespan.
I don't know about Optima batteries. Where can you get them? |
Yeah I was thinking I'd have to cut the batteries out at about 11 volts, so probably a volt meter would be a good idea... or get a capacitor with a voltage display built in... |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yeah I was thinking I'd have to cut the batteries out at about 11 volts, so probably a volt meter would be a good idea... or get a capacitor with a voltage display built in... |
11 volts might be too low but i'm not sure. But voltage isn't really a safe or practical way to go because the voltage is more a product of load than capacity remaining. For example, if you cranked the volume up for a moment or if there was a big base section the voltage would drop and then rise again afterwards.
There are battery regulators that have a microprocessor that measures and displays and exerts various influences on the battery including user defined cut outs. You tell them and/or they compute themself the amp capacity of the batteries and cut out when a certain amount has been discharged.
If you use a specialist battery like an Optima then you would also want to find out about them regarding these issues.
It might sound like a hassle but is usually less so than battery problems, and cheaper in the long run too. |
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Hybrid34
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:19
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly I think Optima batteries aren't really worth their weight and gold,
Yes their a very good battery as I've owned one, but for their price its a bit to much,
The retail from $360 - $480approx, for that price you can get 3-4 good quailty GSYUASA 480CCA batteries, say a battery lasts you 2years...thats 8years of gsyuasa batteries to one optima.
(Something the guys at battery world told me) might be worth considering. |
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Hybrid34
Fordmods Tyre Shredder
Age:19
Posts: 382
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Location: S.E Suburbs VIC, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="JWM"][quote="relaxed_diplomacy"] | JWM wrote: |
Yeah I was thinking I'd have to cut the batteries out at about 11 volts, so probably a volt meter would be a good idea... or get a capacitor with a voltage display built in... |
COuple of ways you can have a volt meter
-I"ve just installed a volt meter on the battery Around $30
-Some Amps (I knwo alpine V12) have a volt meter reading so you know what voltage is going in the amps
- If you drive a ef/el nf/nl with trip computer theres a little trick you can do that shows you your volt reading on the dash
- or a capacitor
- Ash |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
Age:33
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Hybrid34 wrote: | Honestly I think Optima batteries aren't really worth their weight and gold,
Yes their a very good battery as I've owned one, but for their price its a bit to much,
The retail from $360 - $480approx, for that price you can get 3-4 good quailty GSYUASA 480CCA batteries, say a battery lasts you 2years...thats 8years of gsyuasa batteries to one optima.
(Something the guys at battery world told me) might be worth considering. |
I just did the same research and basically got the same prices and came to the same conclusion about preferentially using std type batteries.
I ended up getting a 900cca battery for $182, but it retails for $215.
The largest optima is 600cca and retails for $475.
So i've got 50% greater capacity, for 45% the price (comparing retails), and it should last longer due to the greater capacity being less affected by the loads.
Optima's are also less available, i would have had to drive 500kms return to get one, so you might have to factor that cost in as well.
The 600cca optima is 27kg and i reckon the one i got is around the same weight, but probably about 4" to 5" longer. It's loong. |
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JWM
Fordmods Oompa Loompa
Age:16
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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So its ok to run GSYUASA batteries in the boot?
And thanks for all the great help guys, appreciate it |
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relaxed_diplomacy
Fordmods - Getting Side Ways
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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If you are using a std type lead acid battery you should use a battery box to contain the muck. Even if you use an optima type you still need to protect the terminals from being shorted by any loose conductive objects in the boot.
Many of the battery boxes i've seen are rather big boofy things that take up a lot more space. But in my situation the battery i chose was too long for even an extra long battery box. It has the terminals up one end which means they are somewhat tucked away at the back of the boot, and i'll cover them. It is a "maintenance free" type meaning there aren't any screw-off caps. The top is neat and its all black, so it looks fine, and is fine without a box except it does still ventilate in some way and might still expel some muck. The inside of it can still be accessed via a screw in charge indicator, so i am told i can still add water if i so need and desire. I think i will hold it down with a ratchet strap.
Repco quoted $19/m for 245A cable but i got some from "Nolans" Eden for $13/m. I asked for 5m of the red stuff and got about 30cm more and ended up needing just under 5m. This went from the starter motor, through a section of chassis rail, through the floorpan into the far left passenger compartment not far behind the ECU, under the edge of the carpet, under the rear seat and through into the front right of the boot where the battery is. The original red lead to the starter remains in place. I connected earths from the rear top shock tower to the battery.
At the front battery location i joined the red connectors and wrapped them in a fair amount of red tape, and joined the black connectors (and for convenience screwed them to the chassis). |
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