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A Note on Cut Springs 

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:38 am 
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Hopefully, the next person will have read this thread, and realise to him/herself better not do that.

If not, we've got plenty of ammo here in this thread.

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:44 am 
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how can u tell if the springs are cut when u buy a car second hand?

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:50 am 
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It will bounce around like a jumping castle, and every bump you go over will be greeted with a huge 'thump' and a momentary loss of control as you hit the bumpstops...

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:02 am 
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i got a full set of king lows for $162 on ebay.

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:25 am 
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ie. cheap enough to no tbother with the trouble/risk of cut springs.

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:51 am 
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lol not a great idea. must look awesome but get some pics up!
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:59 am 
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blackjack_original wrote:
basically, what i'm saying is; give him a break, he done wrong, now he knows it, no need to abuse him.


I don't think he knows it. He wants to go to the wrecker and buy some more stock springs to try again. And I bet he won' be using a hacksaw this time either!

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:02 am 
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Steady ED wrote:
It will bounce around like a jumping castle, and every bump you go over will be greeted with a huge 'thump' and a momentary loss of control as you hit the bumpstops...

what are bumpstops...and dont u get these if u dont get the correct shocks aswel...i think my mates corolla had standard shocks with really low springs...or just cut springs...

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:22 am 
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bumpstops are the mechanical part of the suspension which limits its travel to stop the suspension over compressing,

yes, having standard shocks with really low springs will cause you to hit the bumpstops, (as the damper rate is too low for the shorter springs)

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:28 am 
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Bumpstops are the rubber things that make it a little less harsh when your suspension bottoms out.
Obviously, there's only a certain amount your spring and shocker can compress before all the bits ram up into the underside of your car.
The bumpstops are what it hits.
Because lowered springs are a 'heavier' rate, they don't compress as easily.
This compensates for their decreased length.
Cut springs will have the same rate as standard springs, in a shorter length.
They won't be able to exhibit any control over the body, as the shockers will be overdamping.
You can also hit them if your shocks are f**k, because your springs will be doing all the work, the shocks will be underdamping.
Basically, to have good suspension, the rate and damping of the shockers and springs have to be fairly well matched.

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:06 pm 
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For anyone really looking to obtain some knowledge, look up a book called Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams, an engineer for Chrysler if I remember correctly. This goes in to detail on how spring rates actually effect handling. For everyone out there who flame cut springs, WHEN IT IS DONE CORRECTLY IT WILL HANDLE THE STREET BETTER THAN KING SPRINGS!!!!! I can say this from experience as my last EF I6 had cut springs and matched short shocks and it handled better than my EF V8 with King Lows and matched shocks. PROVEN FACT....... soft spring rates help the tyre to adhere to the road. PROVEN FACT...... if spring rates are too hard then the tyres will momentarily skip across the road when encountering bumps. Why is it that even though an EF XR6 has lowered suspension it still remains soft????? If we drive around on race tracks then hard springs would be perfect, HOWEVER WE DONT!!!! All this being said, to the guy who started the thread, your a f**k tool mate cause 3 coils is for f**k sake way too much!!

For any one looking to argue........
STD SPRING RATES
Front 319.5lbs/in
Rear 183.8lbs/in
CUT SPRING RATES
Front 1.25 coils removed 378lbs/in
Rear 1 coil removed 202lbs/in

Note EA SLS rear springs were used due to the nature of the spring.

Conclusion
Front increase in spring rate appox 18%
Rear increase in spring rate approx 10%
With this slight difference in balance it helps the car to maintain rear end grip when cornering under heavy throttle loads and can be adjusted with sway bar rates

Compared to King Lows with a front spring rate of 385lbs/in and a rear progressive rate spring which is out of my scope to measure however is not as friendly when going over speed humps as I now experience

Heat transfer throughout the spring whilst being cut is negligable as you can still safely hold the spring within 3 inches of the cut right after it has been done and this portion of the spring is part of the seating area any way. Also something to note is that springs generate an enormous amout of heat when compressing and decompressing which exceeds the amount of heat generated when modifying them. So to say that cutting them is going to alter their molecular structure is s**t.

My final statement is this..... Cutting springs has been made illegal due to the efforts of tools like the person who originated this thread, and for no other reason. If done correctly they WILL provide you with a fantastic ride and performance. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CUT SPRINGS UNTILL YOU HAVE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK AND IF YOUR TOO f**k LAZY TO DO SO THEN JUST PULL A SPIDER OUT OF YOUR WALLET AND BUY SOME LOWERED SPRINGS

 

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:45 pm 
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Slabz wrote:
and if lowered springs are so cheap then why don't you guys buy em for me? DONATE to the "lower slabz' car foundation"


Cause the rest of us saved money and bought them ourselves. Hell, i am a povo uni student as well, so i saved for 3 months untill i could afford to do everything properly

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:29 pm 
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Gezz, you guys can get nasty, Slabz was just after a little bit of advice and you all jumped down his neck. It wasn’t like he wanted to have his car sitting on the bump stops and drive around, he just wanted to drop the height a little. Hence why he went out a got some new springs….

Good on you Slabz for having a go, of course getting a set of lowered springs is going to be the better option in the long run, but a temporary fix like cutting half to one coil off will do for the time been, although it will void any insurance you might have.

This site is supposed to be for people who are like minded and enjoy doing modifications to their cars, I’m sure comments like “Moronâ€￾ “he is a noodleâ€￾ “knobâ€￾ “dumb a***!!!â€￾, aren’t really all that helpful in promoting a good ford modification community. (although sometimes funny.)
As for the comments about it been illegal, I’ve got no doubt about that, but I could guarantee that on at least 90% of cars owned by fordmods members there will be one or more illegal/unroadworthy items I could find.

Give the guy a break, and offer some helpful/unabusive posts..

Now back to working on my un engineered turboed EF.. :D
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:41 pm 
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Jaysen wrote:
For anyone really looking to obtain some knowledge, look up a book called Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams, an engineer for Chrysler if I remember correctly. This goes in to detail on how spring rates actually effect handling. For everyone out there who flame cut springs, WHEN IT IS DONE CORRECTLY IT WILL HANDLE THE STREET BETTER THAN KING SPRINGS!!!!! I can say this from experience as my last EF I6 had cut springs and matched short shocks and it handled better than my EF V8 with King Lows and matched shocks. PROVEN FACT....... soft spring rates help the tyre to adhere to the road. PROVEN FACT...... if spring rates are too hard then the tyres will momentarily skip across the road when encountering bumps. Why is it that even though an EF XR6 has lowered suspension it still remains soft????? If we drive around on race tracks then hard springs would be perfect, HOWEVER WE DONT!!!! All this being said, to the guy who started the thread, your a f**k tool mate cause 3 coils is for f**k sake way too much!!

For any one looking to argue........
STD SPRING RATES
Front 319.5lbs/in
Rear 183.8lbs/in
CUT SPRING RATES
Front 1.25 coils removed 378lbs/in
Rear 1 coil removed 202lbs/in

Note EA SLS rear springs were used due to the nature of the spring.

Conclusion
Front increase in spring rate appox 18%
Rear increase in spring rate approx 10%
With this slight difference in balance it helps the car to maintain rear end grip when cornering under heavy throttle loads and can be adjusted with sway bar rates

Compared to King Lows with a front spring rate of 385lbs/in and a rear progressive rate spring which is out of my scope to measure however is not as friendly when going over speed humps as I now experience

Heat transfer throughout the spring whilst being cut is negligable as you can still safely hold the spring within 3 inches of the cut right after it has been done and this portion of the spring is part of the seating area any way. Also something to note is that springs generate an enormous amout of heat when compressing and decompressing which exceeds the amount of heat generated when modifying them. So to say that cutting them is going to alter their molecular structure is s**t.

My final statement is this..... Cutting springs has been made illegal due to the efforts of tools like the person who originated this thread, and for no other reason. If done correctly they WILL provide you with a fantastic ride and performance. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CUT SPRINGS UNTILL YOU HAVE DONE YOUR HOMEWORK AND IF YOUR TOO f**k LAZY TO DO SO THEN JUST PULL A SPIDER OUT OF YOUR WALLET AND BUY SOME LOWERED SPRINGS



softer springs on the rear will help with weight transfer, being able to handle the weight transfer during acceleration in a straaight line and during heavy cornering are 2 completely different things. Ever head of or seen excessive body roll?? ANd don't say it won't happen if you put Huge sway bars in, if your installing all these parts you should have bought lowered springs in the first place.

you did do slightly better than this knob that started this thread by raplacing the shocks, which raises the question, why not just buy springs as well when you bought the shocks??? they aren't that expensive!!!

your also compairing springs from an I6 and a V8, these springs and handling packages are initially different between the two.

Prgressive rate springs are in the same ball park as linear rate springs so you can't compair the 2 unless you have had both.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS CUTTING SPRINGS IS STUPID AND FOREMOST ILLEGAL FOR A NUMBER OF DEFINATE REASONS. THEY AREN'T EXPENSIVE AND FOR THE SAFETY OF YOU AND OTHERS ON THE ROAD, DO IT PROPERLY, BUY LOWERED SPRINGS.

 

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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:20 pm 
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Kit wrote:
Cut springs = No insurance


line lockers and bald tires also equals no insurance so meh...

sharkbite wrote:
Reasons for NOT cutting springs (Apologies for repetitions)

1.) The springs become brittle where they are cut.
2.) they no longer put pressure on the strut when going over a
pothole - spring could pop out unless tied to the strut
3.) springs are designed to function as a complete unit.
the overall behaviour of the spring changes, and
may not match that of the shock, or the rest of the suspension
components. Remember that the springs and shocks
are primarily in place to keep the tyre in contact with the road-
if you change one bit, you need to change the rest to make the suspension function properly
4.) It is illegal to cut springs (probably because of the above)


2) thats only if u cut them too low.

twirquirky wrote:
5) You endanger the life of every pedestrian and other motorist you pass.


how the HELL do u figure that? they arent gonna go nuts in a straight line... crappy asian drivers and grandpas endanger ever person on the road.

P platers are a danger to themselves, yes. BUT old people are a danger to everyone else :x

Xrated wrote:
You should be in a VR Commie with stockies, bruh.


instead i'm in an EB with snowflakes (stockies that don't look like stockies :wink: )

Steady ED wrote:
They both have the same effect.
It just amazes me, that in this era of Lowered Springs being so dirt cheap, that someone would go back to the stone age practice of cutting springs.
It screams what I think is the definition of 'rice'.
Cosmetic mods that actually decrease performance.
For want of a better word, he is a noodle.


i'm a pov uni student who is jack of the front of his car sitting higher than the a*** (like a s**t VL) so i wanted to bring the front down to ride level.

and i went and got another set of stock springs from the wreckers yesterday for $22 and this time i only cut one coil of and now the car sits nice a level AND the strut are still tensioned. also when i cut them i could stick my hand on them afterwards so they can't have been more than about 60-70 degrees. i dont think thats enuf to ruin the tempering.

i will also be posting pictures in a little while because i was smart enuf to take some before i put the more legal ones back in 8-)

 

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