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Am I paranoid - Brake issue 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:18 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Greenmachine wrote:
No ABS - unfortunately it's just a Gli (why the hell were Ford selling cars without it by 1996?? )

It was still only an option on BA utes. Dad got caught out when he bough a new BA tray back.
He assumed ABS was standard and so never ticked the ABS option box.
Given he was towing a large tandem axle trailer daily, the ABS was needed in the wet as it was very light on the front tyres.

In the end we fitted Hayman Reese load levelers to put weight back on the front. It ended up bending and twisting the chassis at the tow bar mounts.
It took some serious bracing to get it right.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:56 pm 
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One thing I've noticed on the two cars I have fitted with the QFM HPX pads is the lower dust content - which has been mentioned here in the past. Compared to the Bendix pads - big difference, no need to wash so much dust off the rims anymore. They seem to have better feel too.
Only thing I need to sort out now, is why the lower 10-12mm of the front pads aren't making good contact with the discs on one car. I did overhaul those calipers, new slider rubbers, etc, and fitted new seals, but I have been advised to change those pad slider plates - particularly over 200k wear.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

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Don't know if it's related to your pad contact issue, but when I changed from EBC to QFM HPX, i noticed that the friction material is actually larger in area by about 4mm in both directions. So, it is contacting areas of the rotors that the previous pads were not, so potentially riding on these higher, unworn areas until they bed in.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Yeah, thanks for the info.
The area is slowly bedding in - car only gets run on the road every few weeks just to lube/free everything, being my EFXR6 wagon project.
Do need to check a few other things - caliper sliders, etc are fine.
Have to get the vernier out and do some checks.

Might just be that front pad set - have identical pads on the XH ute, and they wear evenly.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:39 am 
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My EF wagon has a soft pedal, too.
Didn't like it at first, but have got used to it. It works.
ABS would be nice...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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On my DL I have a soft pedal and I have done the following:

Replaced Pads
Flushed black brake fluid with new fluid
Replaced master cylinder
Replaced brake booster

Car still has a soft pedal, was gonna try replacing the brake lines though, car has done 311,000km after all, if the new brake lines don't fix it then buggered if I know what will...

I saw a comment saying that the ABS doesn't like brake fluid being pressed back through it, how are you supposed to prevent this? is it even possible to have air at the ABS section of the brake lines which could possibly be what's causing a soft pedal?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:40 am 
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My El brakes are the opposite, and I don't know why.
Booster seems to work as the pedal sinks after the motor has started.
But you really have to stand on them to pull the car up quickly.
It may be the pads, as when the pads/rotors get wet, braking gets weird and even worse, so it could just be the pads not being very grippy.
I can't remember how long it's been like this. About 5 years ago I bought slotted fronts and vented rear rotors from ebay that came with pads. That may be the cause, the pads sure do smell a lot with moderate/hard braking, and lots of brown dust on the wheels from them and the rotors look pretty chewed up.
Or it may be master cylinder or the calipers?
Only thinking master cylinder or calipers because I bled the brakes thoroughly about a year ago to try fix the problem, and there was corrosion totally blocking the bleed valves, maybe moisture in the system partially blocking master cylinder ports instead?
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:36 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

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oldel wrote:
My El brakes are the opposite, and I don't know why.
It may be the pads, as when the pads/rotors get wet, braking gets weird and even worse, so it could just be the pads not being very grippy.
I can't remember how long it's been like this. About 5 years ago I bought slotted fronts and vented rear rotors from ebay that came with pads. That may be the cause, the pads sure do smell a lot with moderate/hard braking, and lots of brown dust on the wheels from them and the rotors look pretty chewed up.


If the pads have been on for five years, they've had a long and useful life and probably ready to be retired anyway. I have QFM HPX pads on both my XR6s. They grip fast and pull up hard, and have saved my bacon several times (eg, the guy in front of me stopping for a clear roundabout :shock: ). Try them on the front at least. If that makes a difference, you have found your problem. I get them from GSL Rallysport.
http://gslrallysport.com/shop/index.php ... ducts_id=5

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:02 am 
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paul w wrote:
My EF wagon has a soft pedal, too.
Didn't like it at first, but have got used to it. It works.
ABS would be nice...


My ef fairmont wagon is the same I cracked the brake booster so I put a au II on it I had to mod it a bit but I think the brakes are better still soft but they pull up good just with s**t pads.
Next step in better disks and dba green stuff Pads
Abs in in ef but only in the front

As well some old brake guy was telling me that it has something to do with the brake booster moving I have seen it in my car when the car in on and you step on the brakes you can see the brake booster moving he was saying its the firewall flexing and it happens all the time and if you can stop it from moving you will have better braks.
I'm am working an a bracket to try and stop it from moving
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:00 pm 
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efxr6wagon wrote:
oldel wrote:
My El brakes are the opposite, and I don't know why.
It may be the pads, as when the pads/rotors get wet, braking gets weird and even worse, so it could just be the pads not being very grippy.
I can't remember how long it's been like this. About 5 years ago I bought slotted fronts and vented rear rotors from ebay that came with pads. That may be the cause, the pads sure do smell a lot with moderate/hard braking, and lots of brown dust on the wheels from them and the rotors look pretty chewed up.


If the pads have been on for five years, they've had a long and useful life and probably ready to be retired anyway. I have QFM HPX pads on both my XR6s. They grip fast and pull up hard, and have saved my bacon several times (eg, the guy in front of me stopping for a clear roundabout :shock: ). Try them on the front at least. If that makes a difference, you have found your problem. I get them from GSL Rallysport.
http://gslrallysport.com/shop/index.php ... ducts_id=5


Cheers for the info, I might give them a go. The pads have plenty of meat on them still, so that is even more suggesting they are just a hard compound that doesn't have much grip.
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:20 pm 
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I replaced both my rotors with Drilled and slotted and pads Front and Back. But it didn't change the feel of my paddle its still hard. I also used a G Clamp to push the the pistons in. I did take the cap of the master cylinder. Mine is not ABS either. the Rotors and pads I used is on my build thread

I have everyone is having a great week end
Luc :)
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:02 am 
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Ride: EF Gli wagon

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Sounds like the issue is the pads.

Elwagon91: I'm interested to see what comes of the modification.

While I'm here, any suggestions for brake pads that takes away that spongy feeling?

Also, and I figure I'm gonna get a 'nope' answer to this, but can ABS be fitted to a non-ABS car, i.e. an EF wagon?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:16 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Having done some searching - this very same situation - ie. "WTF has happened to my brakes since I just put new pads on the front?!? " - comes up A LOT all round the world.

There's one make - I think either Volvo or BMW where the issue is often caused by wire clips not being properly positioned on the calipers - correct positioning = instant return of the hard/responsive pedal - but many other types have no such basic issue.

Some others have been fixed by thorough bleeding - ie. apparently even tho ALL that was done was pistons pushed in and then pumped back out with new pads in place, those systems have ended up with air in them (headscratch) - again the result is instant return of hard/responsive pedal.

Many many more tho are like many of us - everything is tried with nothing fixing it.

I really wonder if there's some adjustment in the master cyl that gets buggered if fluid is forced back thru it? - or perhaps a seal that gets moved a bit and subsequently doesn't seal properly immediately the way it was before being disturbed? - or maybe the caliper piston seals do something wierd - AFAIK they're a V type thing designed to maintain certain pull off when braking pressure is released - so if they're pushed back in with excessive opposing pressure - ie. when pushing fluid up thru the master rather than releasing nearby bleeder - do they perhaps half twist or shift somehow to make that pulloff excessive or something?

In at least some aeroplanes there's a definite adjustment you can make inside the master cylinders (aeroplanes generally incorporate differential L and R braking) which affects just how much effect the caliper pulloff mechanism can work - ie. if the adjustment is too relaxed - in the "allow pulloff" direction then the max pulloff happens - which to be honest is not usually a drama - noticeably softer than ideal but not bothersomely so - but if set up right, the brakes do have a noticebly better response and feel - and if it's set too much against the pulloff then the pedals feed fantastic but the brakes at best end up wearing out real quick and at worst end up smoking or worse...

 

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