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Am I paranoid - Brake issue 

 

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 Post subject: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:38 pm 
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Ride: 1995 EF Falcon Futura-AU motor

Location: Melbourne
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Hi All,

I have recently purchased a ’95 EF.

A few days after I got it the Cruise Control stopped working. On inspection I noticed brake fluid was leaking form the Master Cylinder via the Cruise Control switch mounted to it. I replace the switch with another from the wreckers and all is now sweet with the Cruise Control.

The following day I noticed brake fluid leaking from the back of the master cylinder, where the reservoir is mounted to it.

Rather than service the master cylinder I just replaced it with another. I bench bled the replacement first before mounting it to the break booster and connecting the brake lines.

I then completely flushed the lines and used near on 1.5lt of fluid doing so. I wanted to ensure a complete flush as I don’t know when it was last done. I bled the breaks in the order as specified in the workshop manual, ensuring the pedal never went all the way to the floor to reduce the risk of stuffing the seal in the master cylinder.

During the above procedures I also inspected all the brake hoses and lines and can find no trace of any leaking. I also checked the callipers and pistons and these seem to be operating as they should. i.e. the brake pads are being released when the pressure is taken off the brake pedal. The pads are being applied when the pedal is pushed.

All should be good however the brake pedal seems very soft to me. The breaks seem to operate as they should, the ABS kicks in when it suppose to.

I have noticed when driving my sisters AU the pedal feels very firm as soon as you press it. In my experience most cars I have driven have been the same.

I have also checked the brake booster valve to ensure it is operating as it should. I.e. air will only pass through it one way. The hose form the manifold to the booster does not seem to leak. A vacuum is being created when the engine is running.

When the ignition is off pressure seems to build up as it should. When I pump the pedal the pressure increases. If I hold the pedal down and start the engine the pedal will sink about 20mm. This all seems as it should be to me.

The only other thing I can think to mention is that when the engine is running if I pump the pedal pressure does NOT seem to build up. It remains pretty much constant. I have never experienced this with any vehicle I have driven.

Could it be that I am paranoid and the EF’s just happen to have a soft feeling brake pedal? Sorry for the long winded post I just want to make sure I have covered everything.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Horace
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:11 pm 
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My EL, had a soft peal too. Couldn't fix it. Brakes worked fine, never any worries in that regard.

You can improve things, with braided lines - the rubber lines, if still original, a probably past their prime.


BTW: if you want a soft pedal get a Holden - every one I've drive, from old to current, used and new, commos/astras/barinas, all scarily soft pedals.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:29 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: 1997 EL Ford Fairmont Ghia

Location: Brisbane
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yep got the same soft peddle in my EL ghia. The brakes work well but i really need to jump on them to get max braking. My bro's EF is completely different, the peddle is like an on/off switch.
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ive found this after replacing pads or bleeding lines, pedal feels sloppy and s**t house, not exactly confidence inspiring. Usually comes good though after a few days.
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:52 pm 
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I find the soft pedals better...for emergency stop slam the brakes, for slow controlled braking, slowly put the pedal down. I am used to this...so when driving my parents toyota's I do the same and the car just jolts to a stop after a slight tap...so now I have to take extra car to brake smoothly in their car.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:19 pm 
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Ride: 1995 EF Falcon Futura-AU motor

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Just as an update late last night on the way home from a mates I came around a corner to find a very large deer standing in the middle of the road!!

Slammed on the brakes and came to a complete stop within 2 meters of him.

Verdict - Bakes are perfect.
:D
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:38 pm 
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It is my understanding that a cam with more valve overlap will have less vacuum at idle than the standard cam. So to harden the pedal up a bit get a lumpy cam ?
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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Ride: 1995 EF Falcon

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

my EF is completely oppsite... like the guy posted above, its like an off on switch.. barely have to touch it, really sudden action.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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my brakes are soft ever since i put the bendix pads in and ive actually come to like it give me a really nice level of control over the breaking and when i need the breaks u can really put it down hard and u can fly through the front windscreen its great :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:43 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ive owned 2 efs both had new rotors and pads and both felt soft no matter wat but I think its easier to controk the brakes

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:32 pm 
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I know this is an old topic but thought I'd chuck my experience in as well - hopefully someone will crack whats going on with these...

When I first got my EF the brakes were absolutely amazing - incredible stopping power with very light effort - you could do eye popping stops with yer big toe no sweat.

So then it needs roadworthy and the feckers tell me "the front pads have ta be changed mate" - I personally didn't think they were excessively worn but I did discover one slide was siezed on one side - which meant one pad was worn more than the other and they both had a slight angle. Really amazing considering how fantastic the brakes were working.

So I got some "whever they gave me" pads to suit the car from supercheap - just to get the roadworthy done - and with the plan to put the originals back in or get some EBC's or something within a few weeks.

When I put it together with the cheapo pads - POOF - nice effortless big toe braking was a thing of the past - FOREVER! - even with QFM HPX's back on it the brakes are std squishy Falcon. They work fine but the effortless very responsive brakes it had are a thing of the past :-(

Unfortunately I never did bother trying to just put the originals back on to see if it went back to how it was.

Bugg ered if I can figure what the go is! is there a seal or something that gets damaged or unseated in the master cylinder when the caliper pistons are pushed back in? - if so do you maybe avoid that by clamping the brake line and cracking the bleeder to push the pistons in?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Greenmachine wrote:
I know this is an old topic but thought I'd chuck my experience in as well - hopefully someone will crack whats going on with these...

When I first got my EF the brakes were absolutely amazing - incredible stopping power with very light effort - you could do eye popping stops with yer big toe no sweat.

So then it needs roadworthy and the feckers tell me "the front pads have ta be changed mate" - I personally didn't think they were excessively worn but I did discover one slide was siezed on one side - which meant one pad was worn more than the other and they both had a slight angle. Really amazing considering how fantastic the brakes were working.

So I got some "whever they gave me" pads to suit the car from supercheap - just to get the roadworthy done - and with the plan to put the originals back in or get some EBC's or something within a few weeks.

When I put it together with the cheapo pads - POOF - nice effortless big toe braking was a thing of the past - FOREVER! - even with QFM HPX's back on it the brakes are std squishy Falcon. They work fine but the effortless very responsive brakes it had are a thing of the past :-(

Unfortunately I never did bother trying to just put the originals back on to see if it went back to how it was.

Bugg ered if I can figure what the go is! is there a seal or something that gets damaged or unseated in the master cylinder when the caliper pistons are pushed back in? - if so do you maybe avoid that by clamping the brake line and cracking the bleeder to push the pistons in?


You should crack the bleeder to push the pistons back.
I only ever had issues with my EF back in the day when I used Ferrodo Zero pads as a stop gap between work out pads and on the limit rotors and fitting HPX's and DBA 4000 series rotors.
It took weeks to properly bed the pads in and pedal was s**t the whole time.

What happens if you drive in the wet and stomp the brakes? Does it lock both front wheel at the same point? or does one lock significantly before the other?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:30 pm 
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With the cheapo Supercheap pads and then now with the HPX's (which have only been on for a week I must say) the brakes function fine and evenly, just not the super light pedal AND really good bite that it had with the original pads - like I say, until I replaced those original pads you could pull it up easily from high speed just with your big toe - pedal effort was VERY light but with excellent proportioning as well - will always go down as the best brakes I've ever experienced in a car I think.

The difference between the HPX's and the cheap pads is that the cheap pads really didn't inspire confidence with heavy braking - and that was only getting worse as time went on such that after 2 years their performance was just plain unacceptable so I finally got off my butt and ordered some HPX's. The effectiveness situation is 100% fixed with the HPX's - ie. the harder you push the pedal, absolutely the harder they bite and pull it up (thumbsup). I've followed the breaking in procedure to the letter with the HPX's but never did do any sort of break in with the chepo ones.

The thing I keep headscratching about is that the absolutely superb original braking instantly disappeared simply by changing the pads - i did nothing else to it - just removed the old ones (talking front only) - pushed in the pistons with large multy grips (didn't take huge force - they went in quite easily) and fitted the new ones.

I'm hoping the situation will be similar to what you've said with regard to pedal feel improving as the HPX's "bed in" to the disc surfaces - but altho I certainly think that will happen to at least some degree, my gut feeling is that the lost extremely easy pedal situation is something else - maybe down to pushing the pistons in without cracking the bleeders? maybe that's what's happened to all these cars that have the "squishy pedal" syndrome??

To be clear tho - when i speak of "squishy pedal" that's in the context of being in comparison to the previous VERY responsive and light + extremely effective pedal feel the car had originally. In and of itself the pedal feel and effectiveness now is quite decent by general standards - just not as brilliantly good as it started out. I bought this car off the family of an old fellow who went into a home (friends of my in-laws) - their daily driver was a current model Prado and one of their first comments about this car when I asked about it was that "it's got FANTASTIC brakes!! " - they weren't wrong! - until I buggered them :cry:

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:15 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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It was the Ferodo's that took ages to bed in and get good pedal feel.
One thing i'll give the Ferodo's not mater how much you cooked them they didn't fade. They weren't particularly great in the first place though. (you average tightwade FM member would be happy with them for the price)

The QFMs had a 'good' feel out of the box and got better over a few days.

Got ABS by any chance? ABS doesn't like fluid being pushed back through them.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Am I paranoid - Brake issue
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:34 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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No ABS - unfortunately it's just a Gli (why the hell were Ford selling cars without it by 1996?? ) - I very nearly passed on taking it because of that - ABS in the old ED Futura saved my ar$e twice.

It's actually feeling very decent now with the QFM's - indeed improving slightly with every day - there's a chance it MIGHT get back to damned close to original at this rate! REALLY kickin myself for being so lazy for so long about getting decent pads back in it...

 

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