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avoiding the armco 

 

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 Post subject: avoiding the armco
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:09 pm 
Parts Gopher
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E series' are notoriously 'taily', although these issues were supposedly ironed out by el (my model) i got bitten the other day on a greasy road. is there any tangible way to sure up the rear end to minimise the chances snap oversteer in the future?

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:12 pm 
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i have felt your pain except with a gutter. i reackon decent springs and shocks will do the trick with less body roll the car should be more predictable well thats what im hoping for anyways.
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:58 pm 
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stiffer sway bars? the old man put bigger sway bar in the rear of his EF xr6 wagon and it really helped tie it down. LSD might help if you havnt already got it.

maybe need to speak to a profesional, but i think sway bars front and rear in the right combo will help heaps.

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:45 pm 
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"Engineers at Tickford had discovered that by lowering the pivot point of the Watt's linkages in the rear suspension by 20 millimetres (0.8 in), that the roll oversteer effect which plagued the EF could finally be eliminated. Previously on EF models, during hard cornering the rear end of the car often felt as if it could not keep up with the front, due to the difference in roll rate between the front and rear suspension. The result of this produced unpredictable car handling at times, where the delayed weight transfer at the rear would seek to damage the integrity of the outside rear tyre grip. "

this is from wiki...

sounds like the ef would make a good drift car :D

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:09 pm 
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More Grunt wrote:
"Engineers at Tickford had discovered that by lowering the pivot point of the Watt's linkages in the rear suspension by 20 millimetres (0.8 in), that the roll oversteer effect which plagued the EF could finally be eliminated. Previously on EF models, during hard cornering the rear end of the car often felt as if it could not keep up with the front, due to the difference in roll rate between the front and rear suspension. The result of this produced unpredictable car handling at times, where the delayed weight transfer at the rear would seek to damage the integrity of the outside rear tyre grip. "

this is from wiki...

sounds like the ef would make a good drift car :D
in stock trim and remove the watts links,the tail might corner first.i hit a few rivers running across the freeway this morning at 5am at speed and light rain,had the back end twitch a few times,but not to worry about-------the same spot,is where 4 and 6s spin in to the barriers in rain,and hard to see the water. drop the car to xr specs and use very good shocks,replace bushes in the watts links and rear sway bar.

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:17 pm 
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If your EL is stock and shocks havnt been changed already i would change them. The EL also had an 8% softer springs in the rear for a more comfortable ride but in your case its not a good thing. So as already advised if not already done replace the shocks, replace springs to lows (XR height) replace watts link bushes if worn along with any other worn bushes on the rear. It may also be wise to have a wheel alignment done to ensure the rear isnt out from a previous bingle that you may not know of. I have some pics in my gallery of my EL Fairmont Ghia on lows and it handles so much better now than stock height.
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:16 am 
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More Grunt wrote:
"Engineers at Tickford had discovered that by lowering the pivot point of the Watt's linkages in the rear suspension by 20 millimetres (0.8 in), that the roll oversteer effect which plagued the EF could finally be eliminated. Previously on EF models, during hard cornering the rear end of the car often felt as if it could not keep up with the front, due to the difference in roll rate between the front and rear suspension. The result of this produced unpredictable car handling at times, where the delayed weight transfer at the rear would seek to damage the integrity of the outside rear tyre grip. "

this is from wiki...

sounds like the ef would make a good drift car :D


EF also had a different front geomatry to the EL. stiffer sway bars apparently make the difference. few ppl on here have a high end set of white lines and they love them

 

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 Post subject: Re: avoiding the armco
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:27 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Sharpyelghia wrote:
E series' are notoriously 'taily', although these issues were supposedly ironed out by el (my model) i got bitten the other day on a greasy road. is there any tangible way to sure up the rear end to minimise the chances snap oversteer in the future?


that happened to me in the ED on tuesday morning, after a heavy dew.

i managed to get myself on a 50-something degree angle to the right due to the tail sliding out after i gave it stick around the traffic light intersection, then it snapped back to an even bigger angle to the left... the boys at tafe saw the whole thing and couldnt believe i caught it lol, i only had one hand on the wheel the whole time too, the other was filled with an open Farmers Union Iced Coffee :P didnt spill a drop either.

but back to the topic, youre pretty right with ELs being a lot better for not doing that, did the same thing in the EL before it shat itself, did a massive single wheeler on the same corner, same conditions, and the snap oversteer was probably 5 times less intense.

 

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 Post subject: Re: avoiding the armco
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:17 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Sharpyelghia wrote:
E series' are notoriously 'taily', although these issues were supposedly ironed out by el (my model) i got bitten the other day on a greasy road. is there any tangible way to sure up the rear end to minimise the chances snap oversteer in the future?


im actually surprised youve had a few responses without any flaming yet

ffs, learn how to drive....

eg. drive to the conditions

how the f**k can you have "close encounters" if your driving sensibly? Its not like your in a 1000hp V8

I dont think ive had my car sideways without at least trying?
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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:16 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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fair enough but this isnt a thread about responsible driving etc, its about how to counter the inherent difficulties controling an ef/l when it does lose it, because when they do they dont do it by halves. There will be a time when its wet, and greasy, with low tread and a single pegger for some of the fordmodders, and they will get into trouble. with this post here maybe some can perform the mods to minimise the risk and improve their car.

this is why we are here.

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I'm sorry guys........

I've owned a lot of E series falcons (2 EBII XR6, 1 EBII XR8, 1 EBII Ghia, 1 EF XR6, 1 EL Ghia 6 and 1 EL Ghia 8 = current ride) and have only experienced a tank slapper like that once.........

I was 19 years old, my first EB XR6 auto (beautiful car btw). Coming out of a round-a-bout and I gave it a fair bit of stick in the wet. I was too late with my counter steering and too late off the throttle........ My bad.

That one encounter with chronic tank slapping was as a result of my ambitions exceeding my skill set at the time.

My suggestions to make the car still enjoyable and handle well would be a set of tickford spec springs (good compromise between handling and ride comfort), a stiffer set of sway bars front and rear and a very good set of shocks (I like Koni adjustables myself) and good nolothane bushes throughout. All that will be expensive tho, so might like to do it in stages. i would go springs and shocks first and then sway bars and then bushes later.

IMO controlling a tank slapper does not make you a good driver btw..... it just means you're a bad driver who got lucky on that occasion. You really shouldn't be allowing the vehicle to get to the point where it is essentially out of control. Short of oil or similar on the road, there really is no excuse. (I know, I've been there before, but call it the benefit of experience...)

I would prefer a car to tend towards oversteer than understeer any day of the week, as I now know (through years of professional driving and extensive driver training) how to control a vehicle very effectively in those conditions (and I have learnt to respect both mine and the vehicles capabilities and not to exceed either).

In my eyes, there is nothing wrong with a well maintained factory e series setup (especially in tickford form), as long as you know the limitations of the vehicle and don't drive beyond them or your own skill level.

In this instance, it sounds as though you made the same mistake I made 12 years ago.

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:28 pm 
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fiftyone wrote:
few ppl on here have a high end set of white lines and they love them


I upgraded my EL with a full Whiteline setup. Best money I spent on it.

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:37 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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More Grunt wrote:
stiffer sway bars? the old man put bigger sway bar in the rear of his EF xr6 wagon and it really helped tie it down. LSD might help if you havnt already got it.

maybe need to speak to a profesional, but i think sway bars front and rear in the right combo will help heaps.


LSD would make it 50 times worse - trust me Ive experienced it.

Good tyres, good springs and shocks will keep you out of trouble as long as you drive sensible.

If you dont plan on driving sensible dont whinge when you stack it.
I slide my car about in the wet all the time, however I dont let it get too far away. Worst Ive had happen was dropping a rear wheel in some grass - at maybe a 50deg angle.

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:12 pm 
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ea's are ridiculously tail happy. soft stockers are probably the best handling of the ea's :P i've got koni shocks n springs with full nolathane kit, firestone 235/17 rubber and in the wet the other day overtakin in a straight line at 90kays in 4th gear the rear started creepin, with no lsd.

constantly in 2nd and occasionally in third creeps just under hard acceleration in straight lines to the point where you have to back off.

fanning the clutch in 3rd at 80 can see you tank slapping two lanes everytime in the wet.

no launches or quick take offs in the wet.

 

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Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:19 pm 
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low_ryda wrote:
ea's are ridiculously tail happy. soft stockers are probably the best handling of the ea's :P i've got koni shocks n springs with full nolathane kit, firestone 235/17 rubber and in the wet the other day overtakin in a straight line at 90kays in 4th gear the rear started creepin, with no lsd.

constantly in 2nd and occasionally in third creeps just under hard acceleration in straight lines to the point where you have to back off.

fanning the clutch in 3rd at 80 can see you tank slapping two lanes everytime in the wet.

no launches or quick take offs in the wet.


ahahaha i know exactly where youre coming from, my old EA had 4 f**k shocks and country pack raised springs :lol:

 

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