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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Grimketel wrote:
man this is the thread Ive been waiting for.

Xpvanman, thanks for everything you have posted here. the ol' 4 speed is a deep mystery to all of us here (well perhaps 99% of us).

I have an 01 AU 4 speed, and I got her at 160,000 clicks. Decided to give it a minor service at 170k, filter, oil etc (but not a complete drain, aparently some stays in the converter?). I had a freind who works as a profesional mech do the job, and he said in the many btr's he has had to do oil and filter on, mine was by far the most burnt. as close as he could tell the origional fluid, and filter- never changed in 170k... also it had 2 magnets in the pan, and both had been overwhelmed by metal shavings. there was shavings in the ribbing of the pan too. after the fresh fluid went in it was so much better. it stayed like this for a while, but its now back to square one for what feels like slippage and its holding out on shifts (low fluid lvl?) (now 200k). Ill relate to an incident i had shortly after buying it... stoped at lights awaiting U turn. begin u turn, almost no throttle, as i straighten up, apply take off throttle pressure, no hook up, rev to redline, then a bang that would do a 50 cal sinper proud, before slipping into gear and never doing it again. is there anything that could have gone pop? band? clutch pack?

Ive recently found that the rear seal and bush? is worn and leaking fluid. sounds like a real horror story, but thats the great thing about the btr's, they can be 9/10s absolutely f**k, and they still get you around. hard to kill.

does it sound like its rebuildable? or would the money be better spend on a t5 conversion? (both big pains in the a***)



If you have a flogged out extension housing bush & seal, It will be low on oil & it will make it slip - No oil, No drive. But your transmission doesn't sound healthy.If your friend had cut the filter open when he serviced it, He would have found a lot more rubbish in there.

The trouble with BTR's is that they run very hot - That is why they run those extra wide diameter cooler pipes,to get max oil flow to the cooler. "Transtek" make a special gasket & seal kit called a "Taxi pack" kit, instead of using rubber o-rings for the piston seals, they use Viton seals, which is a lot more heat resistant & don't shrink or go hard. That is why it needs to be serviced every 20K - to change the filter & the heat affected oil. 40% of the oil is still in the convertor!

The C1 ,C2 & C4 clutch drum is made of alloy with a steel clutch apply sleeve in the centre of it, When the oil gets real hot, The drum can expand & the steel sleeve can spin or "walk out" of the drum, partially blocking the C2 clutch apply hole, Causing your 50 CAL gear engagement.

Is it noisy? - Have a read of FordFairmonts "No reverse-Drives forward in neutral" thread.

I'd say you could rebuild it with no worries - It will probably cost you $2400 - $2600. I'd say a T5 conversion would be fairly hard to find for an AU - How much would a AU T5 conversion cost?

Converting an AU to manual is a lot easier than EA - EL's. You dont have to pull the dash out to fit the pedal box on an AU. The hardest thing is the top starter motor bolt - Typical.
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:16 am 
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this steel sleeve, could possibly be all the metal we found in the oil?

the box works fairly well, in as that it changes gears without any fuss. after we did the oil and filter, it changed earlier than it did when it was low. now that its low again its really holding out the gears if your giving it the beans. downshifts in normal mode seem laggy, ie after it shifts response is dull, picking up after a few seconds that doesnt seem like an engine power delivery issue, as its only on downshifts. could be a slippage issue. changes do seem to take a while, but that could be a symptom of fords naturaly soft programing. its not noisy at all, just seems doughy. doughyer than most other 4 speeds ive onwed/driven. hearing that every 20k should see a service of filter and oil makes me think that doing 170k without change could be the culprit in its condition (yes i figured that out ALL by myself!)

would a viable alternative be to find a low k 4 speed from a wrecking yard, then give it an overhaul with this transtek kit and front servo kit, bang in a new torque converter (id like a 2500 stall), and pop it in?

Im not too savy on AU manual conversion, id assume you can use any of the boxes from ea-el, and the fordmods patended ecu resistor trick to get it running.

spending 2500 on an auto rebuild sounds a bit much when guys on here are doing full manual conversions on their cars for around $1500.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:14 pm 
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convert to t5, you know you want to!

you should be able to pick up a conversion and rebuild kit for under a grand, and supplied you have the tools its not too difficult to rebuild yourself.

Anyway back to autos....

 

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Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Grimketel wrote:
this steel sleeve, could possibly be all the metal we found in the oil?

the box works fairly well, in as that it changes gears without any fuss. after we did the oil and filter, it changed earlier than it did when it was low. now that its low again its really holding out the gears if your giving it the beans. downshifts in normal mode seem laggy, ie after it shifts response is dull, picking up after a few seconds that doesnt seem like an engine power delivery issue, as its only on downshifts. could be a slippage issue. changes do seem to take a while, but that could be a symptom of fords naturaly soft programing. its not noisy at all, just seems doughy. doughyer than most other 4 speeds ive onwed/driven. hearing that every 20k should see a service of filter and oil makes me think that doing 170k without change could be the culprit in its condition (yes i figured that out ALL by myself!)

would a viable alternative be to find a low k 4 speed from a wrecking yard, then give it an overhaul with this transtek kit and front servo kit, bang in a new torque converter (id like a 2500 stall), and pop it in?

Im not too savy on AU manual conversion, id assume you can use any of the boxes from ea-el, and the fordmods patended ecu resistor trick to get it running.

spending 2500 on an auto rebuild sounds a bit much when guys on here are doing full manual conversions on their cars for around $1500.


Yes, the metal could be coming from that sleeve or the flogged out extension housing bush, or the case bush that supports the output shaft inside - It needs a rebuild!

That $2600 for a rebuild is a drive in, drive out deal & comes with a 3 year/60K ATRA warranty but since you want a high stall, it'll be closer to $3K! If you can get a guaranteed low km trans - Replace the front seal, service it & throw it straight in (The local Ford wrecker here wants $600-$800 for a guaranteed low KM trans with 3 months warranty)

If you want to drive it till it karks itself & do a manual conversion on it , An EA - EL conversion is no good to you - You need an AU kit. The bellhousings & pedal boxes are completely different & the gearboxes are different - The EA-EL is a Borg Warner T-5 where as the AU is a Tremec T-5. The Tremec is 40mm longer & has a different gearshift. The AU kits are very hard to come by - The Ford wrecker here said he is lucky to get 2 a year & they sell as soon as he gets them.
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:52 am 
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xpvanman wrote:
Grimketel wrote:
this steel sleeve, could possibly be all the metal we found in the oil?

the box works fairly well, in as that it changes gears without any fuss. after we did the oil and filter, it changed earlier than it did when it was low. now that its low again its really holding out the gears if your giving it the beans. downshifts in normal mode seem laggy, ie after it shifts response is dull, picking up after a few seconds that doesnt seem like an engine power delivery issue, as its only on downshifts. could be a slippage issue. changes do seem to take a while, but that could be a symptom of fords naturaly soft programing. its not noisy at all, just seems doughy. doughyer than most other 4 speeds ive onwed/driven. hearing that every 20k should see a service of filter and oil makes me think that doing 170k without change could be the culprit in its condition (yes i figured that out ALL by myself!)

would a viable alternative be to find a low k 4 speed from a wrecking yard, then give it an overhaul with this transtek kit and front servo kit, bang in a new torque converter (id like a 2500 stall), and pop it in?

Im not too savy on AU manual conversion, id assume you can use any of the boxes from ea-el, and the fordmods patended ecu resistor trick to get it running.

spending 2500 on an auto rebuild sounds a bit much when guys on here are doing full manual conversions on their cars for around $1500.


Yes, the metal could be coming from that sleeve or the flogged out extension housing bush, or the case bush that supports the output shaft inside - It needs a rebuild!

That $2600 for a rebuild is a drive in, drive out deal & comes with a 3 year/60K ATRA warranty but since you want a high stall, it'll be closer to $3K! If you can get a guaranteed low km trans - Replace the front seal, service it & throw it straight in (The local Ford wrecker here wants $600-$800 for a guaranteed low KM trans with 3 months warranty)

If you want to drive it till it karks itself & do a manual conversion on it , An EA - EL conversion is no good to you - You need an AU kit. The bellhousings & pedal boxes are completely different & the gearboxes are different - The EA-EL is a Borg Warner T-5 where as the AU is a Tremec T-5. The Tremec is 40mm longer & has a different gearshift. The AU kits are very hard to come by - The Ford wrecker here said he is lucky to get 2 a year & they sell as soon as he gets them.


Interesting. I wasn't aware the AU's came with tremec's, i thought that was only the manual BA v8's that had the 3350?

I know you can fit the AU boxes to e series with the right bellhousing, although the shifter is slightly out of position. Not sure whether it is as easy going the other way.

 

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EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

Last edited by skidder on Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:17 am 
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thanks for that mate. didnt know the difference between the BW and tremec t5. sounds like its find a low k unit, do a full service and swap over. theres no way Im rebuilding this one, its just done too many clicks on the one filter and oil. with all that metal i would probably have to gut it.

guess i start looking for a nice 4 speed btr...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:17 am 
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It's a shame you live so far away - I have a T5 conversion out of a 02 AU XR6 VCT ute that had done 107K..... :(
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:31 pm 
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xpvanman wrote:
It's a shame you live so far away - I have a T5 conversion out of a 02 AU XR6 VCT ute that had done 107K..... :(


now your just teasing ><

prolly cost a bomb for freight.

out of curriosity what are you asking for the unit?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:26 pm 
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$1K - But i would say the freight would be a killer + most companies won't deal with you unless you have an account with them.
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:09 am 
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I can only try brother. the only other tremec t5 ive found is from a series one (with ecu and loom is different) and is asking 1600. this being a series 2 would be a big advantage.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:16 pm 
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It's a series 3 - No ECU.......
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:58 pm 
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xpvanman wrote:
It's a series 3 - No ECU.......


no biggie, theres a little trick you can use to get the auto ecu to run with the manual box, its documented on the forums here.

is it just the box? or conversion kit? ie with pedal box and all the little nick knack bits like throw out fork (?) etc etc...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:28 pm 
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It comes with - Flywheel & clutch, fork, cable, bellhousing, box & shift, crossmember, pedal box, console boot - The wiring is one piece for the engine & gearbox from EL onwards - best to modify yours.

Have you checked your local damaged vehicle auctions? - Sometimes they go for the right price.
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