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Band adjustment? 

 

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 Post subject: Band adjustment?
Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:13 pm 
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Has anyone adjusted the bands on a falcon auto?

What are the symptoms of loose bands?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:08 pm 
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Screwed bands usually lead to overheating and slipping. May be sloppy shifts also but if this is the case I would first check all the solenoids are fine first.

I have never played with the insides of a BTR so am unaware of the method of adjustment for the bands.

 

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EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:26 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I just found out that you can adjust the bands externally on an ea/eb/ed auto, but not on an el. And yeah, they said solinoids seem more likely an issue than bands.

When the tranny in my el goes above normal operating temp, i.e. very hot day, a/c on, mountain ranges, temp guage reading half, sometimes, and only sometimes, the tranny does not shift fully smoothly.

Normal weather and the fitment of a large trans oil cooler should eliminate it, hopefully even if i tow.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Yep, I made the mistake of trying to run a BTR behind a turbo as is. A week later had 2 tranny coolers, played with the solenoids and new fluid and it barely slipped at all and changes were great...well in first, second or third anyway.

 

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EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:19 pm 
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What do you mean when you say "played with the solenoids"? The guy i spoke to said if they are a problem they need to be replaced, costing between $100 and $400 each.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:43 am 
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Not use them at all, ofcourse you have to use resistors in place of them to keep the ecu happy.

Either this or you can adjust the grub screw (although not sure if this is only on AU onwards boxes) to increase line pressure.

edit: haha was trying to figure out why ofcourse was coming up blanked out as a***, then realised I had spelt it wrong :oops: too early in the morning

 

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EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:56 am 
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http://www.fordmods.com/ford-turbo-supercharger-nos-forced-induction-f22/btr-4-speed-with-boost-t64809-20.html

there we go, look for the post by turbotrana. I was always a bit skeptical about this prematurely stretching the bands, but I used it for 6 months and there weren't any problems. If i was doing it again though I would probably just up the line pressure via the screw on the S5 solenoid as it wasn't exactly daily driver friendly.

 

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EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:34 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
I just found out that you can adjust the bands externally on an ea/eb/ed auto, but not on an el. And yeah, they said solinoids seem more likely an issue than bands.

When the tranny in my el goes above normal operating temp, i.e. very hot day, a/c on, mountain ranges, temp guage reading half, sometimes, and only sometimes, the tranny does not shift fully smoothly.

Normal weather and the fitment of a large trans oil cooler should eliminate it, hopefully even if i tow.


Sounds like you need a new S5 solenoid & replace the front servo seals

On a EF - BF BTR trans,The band adjustments are done by selective shims,but the valvebody has to be removed & compressed air applied to the servo apply port & measure the distance when the band is fully applied.

When you screw the adjustment in on the S5 solenoid (pressure control solenoid) it makes the shifts harder & can snap the front band if it is out of adjustment - AU onwards came standard with the adjustable S5. The trick is if you use the pressure control solenoid out of a 4L60E HOLDEN transmission (VR - onwards) it is the same solenoid as the BTR but costs half the price!

Because of where the front band servo is (the round cover right next to the catalytic convertor) the heat generated by it shrinks the (3) rubber piston o-rings and when the oil thins out when it heats up making a harsh shift. The front band controls the 2nd & 4th gear shifts - You can change them in the car,Dig out the circlip on the outer edge of the round cover & it comes out.You can buy a front servo kit at most transmission shops seperately for around $10.....
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:53 pm 
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xpvanman wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
I just found out that you can adjust the bands externally on an ea/eb/ed auto, but not on an el. And yeah, they said solinoids seem more likely an issue than bands.

When the tranny in my el goes above normal operating temp, i.e. very hot day, a/c on, mountain ranges, temp guage reading half, sometimes, and only sometimes, the tranny does not shift fully smoothly.

Normal weather and the fitment of a large trans oil cooler should eliminate it, hopefully even if i tow.


Sounds like you need a new S5 solenoid & replace the front servo seals

On a EF - BF BTR trans,The band adjustments are done by selective shims,but the valvebody has to be removed & compressed air applied to the servo apply port & measure the distance when the band is fully applied.

When you screw the adjustment in on the S5 solenoid (pressure control solenoid) it makes the shifts harder & can snap the front band if it is out of adjustment - AU onwards came standard with the adjustable S5. The trick is if you use the pressure control solenoid out of a 4L60E HOLDEN transmission (VR - onwards) it is the same solenoid as the BTR but costs half the price!

Because of where the front band servo is (the round cover right next to the catalytic convertor) the heat generated by it shrinks the (3) rubber piston o-rings and when the oil thins out when it heats up making a harsh shift. The front band controls the 2nd & 4th gear shifts - You can change them in the car,Dig out the circlip on the outer edge of the round cover & it comes out.You can buy a front servo kit at most transmission shops seperately for around $10.....

Wow, this sounds like really good stuff. Approximate cost of getting someone to replace the S5 solenoid with the holden one?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:15 am 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
xpvanman wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
I just found out that you can adjust the bands externally on an ea/eb/ed auto, but not on an el. And yeah, they said solinoids seem more likely an issue than bands.

When the tranny in my el goes above normal operating temp, i.e. very hot day, a/c on, mountain ranges, temp guage reading half, sometimes, and only sometimes, the tranny does not shift fully smoothly.

Normal weather and the fitment of a large trans oil cooler should eliminate it, hopefully even if i tow.


Sounds like you need a new S5 solenoid & replace the front servo seals

On a EF - BF BTR trans,The band adjustments are done by selective shims,but the valvebody has to be removed & compressed air applied to the servo apply port & measure the distance when the band is fully applied.

When you screw the adjustment in on the S5 solenoid (pressure control solenoid) it makes the shifts harder & can snap the front band if it is out of adjustment - AU onwards came standard with the adjustable S5. The trick is if you use the pressure control solenoid out of a 4L60E HOLDEN transmission (VR - onwards) it is the same solenoid as the BTR but costs half the price!

Because of where the front band servo is (the round cover right next to the catalytic convertor) the heat generated by it shrinks the (3) rubber piston o-rings and when the oil thins out when it heats up making a harsh shift. The front band controls the 2nd & 4th gear shifts - You can change them in the car,Dig out the circlip on the outer edge of the round cover & it comes out.You can buy a front servo kit at most transmission shops seperately for around $10.....

Wow, this sounds like really good stuff. Approximate cost of getting someone to replace the S5 solenoid with the holden one?


One place I used to work at would charge $500 to supply & fit the 4L60E solenoid with a transmission service as part of the deal.If you are handy with tools,all you need is a T-30 Torx socket to lower the rear of the valvebody to get the solenoid out.

The only real way of finding out the condition of your transmission is when you service it,cut open the old filter & have a look inside the Dacron lining - If you have a clutch or band on it's way out,that material will be in the Dacron filter.If you have small pieces of brass lying in bottom of the pan,that is the heat exchanger in the radiator coming apart.
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:17 am 
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hey mate, could go as far as to supply a part number for this VR commo solenoid?

where you would buy, genuine holden spare parts, or aftermarket if possible from repco?

do you just ask for a 4L60E S5 solenoid from a VR commodore?
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:38 pm 
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xpvanman wrote:
One place I used to work at would charge $500 to supply & fit the 4L60E solenoid with a transmission service as part of the deal.If you are handy with tools,all you need is a T-30 Torx socket to lower the rear of the valvebody to get the solenoid out.

The only real way of finding out the condition of your transmission is when you service it,cut open the old filter & have a look inside the Dacron lining - If you have a clutch or band on it's way out,that material will be in the Dacron filter.If you have small pieces of brass lying in bottom of the pan,that is the heat exchanger in the radiator coming apart.

The car only cost $800, yet its real good. Maybe a trans cooler will be enough for me to be able to tow. If not i'll see. If it does slur then shunt into the next gear is that bad for the trans? Seems if i am up to it i could do both correctives you suggest myself and save heaps.

Unfortunately when i serviced the trans recently there was sandy dirt on the side of the pan and i knocked it into the pan when i removed it. Of course this stuff then got coated in oil, and it was hard to tell what was what. There was the normal amount of fur on the magnet, i couldn't see anything unusual. I have seen aluminium particles in another trans but there were none in this one. I still have the old filter so could look at that.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:48 am 
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FordFairmont wrote:
hey mate, could go as far as to supply a part number for this VR commo solenoid?

where you would buy, genuine holden spare parts, or aftermarket if possible from repco?

do you just ask for a 4L60E S5 solenoid from a VR commodore?


The solenoids that we used were genuine Holden,but you have to ask for a 4L60E pressure control solenoid or "force motor" as GM likes to call it.

If you went to GM & asked for a S5,they will not know what you want. The "S" is how BTR identify's the function of each solenoid - There is 7 in the BTR, - 6 in the valebody & 1 in the back of the pump (S7 - torque convertor lock-up clutch control)

VN & VP's have a 4L60(T-700 cable controlled) so the solenoid from a VR onwards will fit.The 4L60E is the electronic version of that original transmission.

Not sure about repco etc but if you check the "yellow pages" under "transmission parts" (ATP,AATP.Motospecs,Driveline etc) - are the companies that supply parts to auto trans shops or try Ebay under "4L60E"
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:13 am 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
xpvanman wrote:
One place I used to work at would charge $500 to supply & fit the 4L60E solenoid with a transmission service as part of the deal.If you are handy with tools,all you need is a T-30 Torx socket to lower the rear of the valvebody to get the solenoid out.

The only real way of finding out the condition of your transmission is when you service it,cut open the old filter & have a look inside the Dacron lining - If you have a clutch or band on it's way out,that material will be in the Dacron filter.If you have small pieces of brass lying in bottom of the pan,that is the heat exchanger in the radiator coming apart.

The car only cost $800, yet its real good. Maybe a trans cooler will be enough for me to be able to tow. If not i'll see. If it does slur then shunt into the next gear is that bad for the trans? Seems if i am up to it i could do both correctives you suggest myself and save heaps.

Unfortunately when i serviced the trans recently there was sandy dirt on the side of the pan and i knocked it into the pan when i removed it. Of course this stuff then got coated in oil, and it was hard to tell what was what. There was the normal amount of fur on the magnet, i couldn't see anything unusual. I have seen aluminium particles in another trans but there were none in this one. I still have the old filter so could look at that.


Try the front servo first - If the car has done over 150K,those o-rings will be stuffed.Go to your local trans shop & ask for a BTR front servo kit. When you put it back together,use vasoline to coat the o-rings & to hold the servo release spring back into the servo - Vaso is compatible with auto oil, Rubber grease etc is not & can block the filter.You will be surprised what a new set of front servo seals will do!

Have you got an old box lying around? Swap the S5's -You have nothing to lose, If you can do it yourself,it is only your time. Or you might be able to get one from the wreckers from one of their scrap exchange boxes - AU's are getting to the age that they are worth nothing & most people starting to fit secondhand boxes instead of paying $2400 for a reco.

If you fit a cooler,always bypass the radiator.If the heat exchanger collapses or the tank gets a hole in it & fills with water - One stuffed trans! BA's are bad for filling the auto up with water.

Aluminium particles in the pan usually come from a white metal bush that is wearing (Extension housing,case bush etc)
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 Post subject: Re: Band adjustment?
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:23 am 
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some great advice their mate !!

also while im here, ive just converted to auto with a 2800rpm stall, and from what i seen the last owner gave the box a good thrashing.

ive noticed when i reverse out my driveway and push the selecter into "D", the revs flare up, and you have to wait a couple seconds before it engages the gear. Sometimes its a 2 second wait, other times its 10 seconds. It just free revs if you try to move too early, and when it engages it kind of clunks into first. Gets very annoying when your sitting on the middle of the road, waiting for the gearbox to engage drive, but its only once you move it out of park or reverse that this happens

other than that, the gearbox shifts fine, doesnt slip or clunk while driving. Also, trying to take off on a hill, it seems to produce the same free revving though...... whats the verdict boss?
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