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BORG WARNER T5 ThrowOut Bearing Shaft munted - HELP & IDEAS! 

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:19 pm 
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Tremec are still making them. And they're still putting them into cars! Beat that!

I've been trying Mal Wood but his website appears to be non-functional - along with his email. Tried phoning three times, all with no answers.

Will try emailing and phoning a couple of the States guys for sure.... Can't be worse than the $675 I was quoted from NZ Ford!
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:19 pm 
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For example here

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:58 pm 
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AWESOME man. I've been doing searches and typing crap into endless boxes for hours... And you come along with that little gem in under half an hour. YOU ROCK! And, although the exchange rate is constantly falling, it is affordable!

I wonder what the differences are between the two? I wonder just how old my T5 is? Probably old.

Here's the picture from the site you found... Image

It appears to be very similar, although a lot stronger in certain areas - can't be a bad thing ;) - and now I just have to guess as to whether that big hunk of metal around the base of the shaft will inhibit the fork and bearing from complete movement.

Here's a copy of the original parts photo...
Image

As I am novice mechanic (hahahahaha, not even a mechanics wash cloth in reality..!) and have not played with this sort of thing before... Well - just trying to get it right first time. You know......

There's no mention of the different input shaft lengths for our good old straight 6's - but guess I could just chop the end off their product to fit it, and maybe turn a bit of meat off the base if that is in the way of clutch fork.... One more thing - Did everyones T5's have angled front bearings, or are they mostly straight roller bearings? Am damn sure mine aren't straight rollers like they say...

That sure does beat the $675 that NZ Ford quoted - AND IT LOOKS LIKE A MUCH NICER PART!

Thanks DroneDude. The guy is away on his Christmas sabbatical until first week of January, so will have to wait further.

Will start hacking into the part I have before then as waiting for things never was one of my strong points!
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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:01 pm 
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fiend wrote:
AWESOME man. I've been doing searches and typing crap into endless boxes for hours... And you come along with that little gem in under half an hour. YOU ROCK! And, although the exchange rate is constantly falling, it is affordable!

I wonder what the differences are between the two? I wonder just how old my T5 is? Probably old.

Here's the picture from the site you found... Image

It appears to be very similar, although a lot stronger in certain areas - can't be a bad thing ;) - and now I just have to guess as to whether that big hunk of metal around the base of the shaft will inhibit the fork and bearing from complete movement.

Here's a copy of the original parts photo...
Image

As I am novice mechanic (hahahahaha, not even a mechanics wash cloth in reality..!) and have not played with this sort of thing before... Well - just trying to get it right first time. You know......

There's no mention of the different input shaft lengths for our good old straight 6's - but guess I could just chop the end off their product to fit it, and maybe turn a bit of meat off the base if that is in the way of clutch fork.... One more thing - Did everyones T5's have angled front bearings, or are they mostly straight roller bearings? Am damn sure mine aren't straight rollers like they say...

That sure does beat the $675 that NZ Ford quoted - AND IT LOOKS LIKE A MUCH NICER PART!

Thanks DroneDude. The guy is away on his Christmas sabbatical until first week of January, so will have to wait further.

Will start hacking into the part I have before then as waiting for things never was one of my strong points!
BY THE PHOTO THEY HAVE REVISED AND UP GRADED.the larger base is to support and hold the steel sleeve,also more solid for the brg.the yoke wear must have been a big problem.

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:29 am 
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That's what I was hoping HANS MAN. That's what I was hoping. The guy emailed me back - only difference between the "pre94" and "94 on" is different input shaft lengths. I think I should get the longer of the two and chop the end off to suit. Also, there was no mention made of "V8", "I6", or "Australian". The 8's use longer input shafts (ala Commonwhore) already don't they? What the hell..

When I pull this piece off, there was an exposed bevelled roller bearing behind it. Not knowing any better, I thought this was unusual, but normal. I played with it for a while, found the bearing to be shot, and put the retainer on and off a few times to see if I could work out how it held the bearing in. I couldn't work it out.

Looking at the diagrams from the TREMEC site, there is meant to be a bearing cup between the retainer and the bearing! And there wasn't! This means -- well... All sorts really. The input shaft can flex around quite a lot. Which could mean all sorts of funny tensions and things going onto the clutch and / or release bearing!

Yeahp - Mal Wood know of this issue!
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Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:46 am 
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There is a bearing retainer inside, there should also be 2-3 round shims for bearing pre-load.

There's no chance in hell that gearbox would run without it, the bearing in question meshes the counter shaft of the gearbox to enable all gears including 4th.

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:43 am 
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Very very odd my Dear Krytox, odd indeed. I have one shim sitting in front of me but definitely no sign what-so-ever of a bearing cup. Image

We are looking at part number 63 on the diagram... Without that bearing cup inside the mechanism the input shaft can move approximately 10mm forwards and backwards, but does still drive gears. Is it possible that the output from the engine was holding the gearbox input shaft in enough to make it work?

Have been told in no uncertain terms by the guy I bought it off that it was running in the car he got it from. The gearbox had been entirely pulled apart in last year or two as there is new sealant everywhere.

The only other option is that I have misplaced it upon removal of the retainer. Like I said, I don't remember seeing one, and by putting all the bits in one container and leaving container inside the bellhousing next to the box you'd expect it to be there. It is possible that it fell off the back of the retainer without me noticing it. Prefer to think I'd have seen it... It's a decent piece to simply vanish with no trace.

Anyway, the roller bearing is shot. It still turns, but is rough as guts.

Man, this manual conversion is the biggest, longest and most astounding thing I've ever attempted. Have bought two gearboxes, heaps of bits and pieces, been given a whole heap of wrong advice from New Zealand half wits. About $600 and six months later and I still have nothing to show for it all other than a nice firewall strengthener and a real strong version of a "Mal Wood Clutch Pin".


Thanks for the reply Krytox old mate soldering iron hands.

Suppose I should see if the roller bearing will come off and take it to the local bearing shop along with the retainer and see if there's a part to replace it with and buy one of those new retainers that ONE DRONE found for me on previous page.


Cheers everyone. Bare with me - all your help is appreciated and the car will love you all for it sooner or later.
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Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:49 am 
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The bearing cup must be there, it is most likely on the bearing or on the floor some where.

 

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Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:00 am 
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It's not on the bearing, and have been looking long and hard for wherever it has gone. No sign of it, and don't remember ever seeing it (which is not 100% guarantee it wasn't there...) May just go jump back in the car and go down to mates workshop and carry on hunting - it did take me over a week to find one of the spare throttle bodies and honestly don't hold out much hope of finding a bearing cup in that situation.

Any quick advice on pulling the roller bearing out? Should it simply slide right off without having to open the box up any more than it already is?

Would be real nice to take the lot to the bearing shop and simply hand over more hard earned cash.

The saga continues. Thanks again... Am sure to have looked everywhere, but will look again.....
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:46 am 
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I'd suggest you can't get hold of Mal Wood or anyone else because they're on break til 5th Jan, like just about everyone else.

I wouldn't rely on everyone replying to emails either. Your best bet wold be to call them as I've found most workshops hardly even check their emails, let alone reply to them.

Fabrication and stuff is well beyond me, so if this is a dumb idea or it's what you've been talking about doing already, just disregard it...

Can you not cut the shaft at the top of where you still have all the meat, then machine that down to as little as you can which would then become a guide for a sleeve, then weld that at the base and machine anything from there. I was thinking if you left the rest of it, you may have issues with the balance

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Scaffy - You're spot on, almost, with everything you suggest.... Have got the new bearing and cup organised.

The main issue being the sleeve and all that... That particular piece DOES NOT SPIN. It is attached firmly to the gearbox housing. All it needs to be is circular - it doesn't need to be balanced.

There is not enough meat to trust any sort of proper alloy welding, but I have ordered some of this http://www.ultrabond.8m.com/ stuff for $30 inc delivery. It should be here late next week.

Looking forward to giving it a shot. Am going to try filling up the worst of the damage, putting it into a lathe and then pushing a very thin sleeve over it. Have to wait for metal places to open up again to find a good fitting bit of pipe or what-have-you....


Cheers - Am off kayaking for four days anyway, so make hay whilst the sun shines ;)
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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:13 am 
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Have now got new input tapered roller bearing and associated cup and put it onto input shaft. Far from being a knowledgeable mechanic type, I am learning heaps with this. Have bought the 15 pin rollers for the internal end of the input shaft, a new front seal and a 0.012 shim for the front input preload.

MAL WOOD did get back to me and he has replacement "input bearing retainer"s available for $100AU if anyone else is interested!...
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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:14 am 
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How do you know the preload shim size before you install the bearing or is this a calculated guess?

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:21 pm 
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I don't mate, I don't. I have a fat looking shim here already and a thin looking one (guess at around 0.01). I asked him for another of each, he replied with "they don't come that thin, but do come in 0.012"...!!!!

Well, hell dude. Give me a bloody 0.012 then!

Anyways - I don't know. Since they are $2USD or thereabouts, figured having a couple of options isn't going to hurt.

And whatever I do, it is going to be better than how it was going to run before pulling it apart! I have time on my hands, not money or knowledge! I'm almost at the point of believing I could do a rebuild on it after reading and re-reading the build documents. Never mind. If I get 10 or 20 thousand K's out of it I will be happy. THEN I can put the auto back in purely to go from A to B whilst I either rebuild the friendly (read CHEAP) T5 or find a TKO (or at least a World Class T5 / T56 whatever..)...

No worries Twason. Your inkling was correct. It is more of a guess than an educated guess even!
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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:51 pm 
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OK, you can and I have sand them down to suit.

Just be carefull how the synchro is re-asembled read and re-read the seciton in the rebuild document.

 

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