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BORG WARNER T5 ThrowOut Bearing Shaft munted - HELP & IDEAS! 

 

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 Post subject: BORG WARNER T5 ThrowOut Bearing Shaft munted - HELP & ID
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:46 pm 
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The long running saga of getting a manual into my EF wagon is a cause of frustration to not only me, but the missus and the FordModders who have to listen to me.

The latest problem is thus best described by a photo
As you can see.... Image

This is the hollow shaft that the throw out (release) bearing slides up and down around the input shaft. The bearing must have shat itself in a previous installation and turned this clean shaft into a thing similar only to a bad coffee cup produced by a drunk potter in the dark, on acid, with soggy clay, on a boat, in an ocean....


The groves at the base of the shaft have actually come the whole way through the original casting. But the opposing side is still reasonably sound. Anyways, the shaft it pretty stuffed, no two ways about it.

My original idea was to take a few MM off in a lathe and put a sleeve of metal over the lot and then turn it in the lathe again to get it back to original out diatmetre.

As the shaft itself supports no wieght - all it does is keep the bearing centred on it's way in and out from the pressure plate - there are options such as covering the whole lot with resin and turning in lathe... Problem with this is that the heat produced by clutch and engine may result in this resin detaching itself from the shaft?

The guy I bought the box off just said "go and get it metal sprayed - easy..."

I guess he means someone out there can spray molten alloy at the thing and it'll build up a thick coating that I could then lathe back to original? Does anyone know what the hell he is on about?


ANY IDEAS APPRECIATED. It is now Christmas time and it now looks like this manual conversion will not be proceeding any time too soon....! Dammit....
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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:43 pm 
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yer u are on the money with the spray

http://www.sculptor.org/Foundries/MetalSpray.htm

easy google search :)

u could find a shaft thats in better condition

 

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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:00 pm 
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get a second hand one from the local trans shop.

 

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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:42 pm 
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Thanks for both those suggestions... I have sent three or four emails off to different transmission / gearbox repair places and have now tried google too :oops:

Have yet to find a "metal sprayer" in Wellington area and shudder at the idea of finding more money!!! Ah well...

No worries, thanks again lads!
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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:06 pm 
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is the front shaft steel or cast iron,if steel measure the groove depth and bore size to see how much support you have for a sleeve.being a out rigger suport for the slide bearing,measure the bore and clen out side dia..length of the extension,cut weld and turn a new section-use a steped weld prep to locate the tube for welding,then turn it to sizes.spray welding is expensive and is harder than steel,can flake off in a lathe,its normally ground to size and has a special weld prep-screw cut to give it a bite.industrial chrome if its less than 1-2mm deep and they are ground,also expensive.use a piece of steel better than mild and weld it,turn it to 1mm oversize,flame\oil harden it,then turn it finished,it will be case hardened and tougher,with better wear.i think they are normally soft.

 

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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Now, that's more my thinking... I would love a "new" second hand one to fall into my lap - but, you know... Chances are.... Probably not...

If anyone has a spare bit like this off a Borg Warner with the numbers 0552 066900 (or similar) on the side then I want to talk to you!

The only problem with steel there Hans, is that there is virtually no steel on the unit at this point. The part, as pictured, actually has the input shaft seal (being a rubber seal similar to, but smaller than, a engine crank seal)...

It also has a slight grove in the back that a roller bearing fits into similar to a wheel bearing...

Which basically means attempting to turn one of a piece of steel and welding a pipe out the front is a little beyond my realm of expertise. Not sure what the tolerances are for seals and bearings, but they're bound to be more accurate than my skills or available tools.

Which brings me back to another idea... Take a mm or two off with the lathe, put something in the deep indentations as a filler and then put a pipe over it and get it lathed down to original size.


Boy, do I hope I start getting replies from these gearbox places!


Cheers again!
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:41 pm 
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you can have them sleeved if there isn't to much wear.


Mal wood will sell sleeved ones out right or exchange.

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:18 pm 
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fiend wrote:
Now, that's more my thinking... I would love a "new" second hand one to fall into my lap - but, you know... Chances are.... Probably not...

If anyone has a spare bit like this off a Borg Warner with the numbers 0552 066900 (or similar) on the side then I want to talk to you!

The only problem with steel there Hans, is that there is virtually no steel on the unit at this point. The part, as pictured, actually has the input shaft seal (being a rubber seal similar to, but smaller than, a engine crank seal)...

It also has a slight grove in the back that a roller bearing fits into similar to a wheel bearing...

Which basically means attempting to turn one of a piece of steel and welding a pipe out the front is a little beyond my realm of expertise. Not sure what the tolerances are for seals and bearings, but they're bound to be more accurate than my skills or available tools.

Which brings me back to another idea... Take a mm or two off with the lathe, put something in the deep indentations as a filler and then put a pipe over it and get it lathed down to original size.


Boy, do I hope I start getting replies from these gearbox places!


Cheers again!
ok,then------use liquid steel-loctite or similar,to build up the grooves,machine that to fit a sleeve,fit the sleeve with .02mm clearrance and use loctite 680 to assemble,let cure and finish machine the sleeve with coolant,as the loctite lets go above 680 deg fah,only way to release it.you may need a turner to machine the bits as all the bits will be .02mm tolerances and set up to the same for run out and square,buy a thrust brg to check the size and the slide,the finish should be very smooth,as ground.the brg should have a groove in the bore to grease,so it slides up and down-easy,with the fork.dont forget to lube all the pivots and slides,and adjustments.

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:35 pm 
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http://www.MalWoodAuto.com.au doesn't appear to be working... Might just try looking in the yellow pages Aussie and trying to find them there.

Part number is 0552 107900 - Tremec and BorgWarner have been helpful, but have to buy through distributors, which are still to get back to me.
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:38 pm 
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right im sure hes got a grinder that is able to achieve better than .001" tolerance...

for the amount of work involved you may as well buy a whole stuffed gearbox and scavenge the part u need

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:12 pm 
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There is a lot of wear at one point (bottom left in photo) where as directly opposite the major wear point is virtually untouched. This would suggest that the bearing (or lack thereof) has been pulling in an off centre manner.

No problem with that - I could just put the part on upside down, so it pulls on the other side for a while.

Unfortunately, this part will give up and release its parts directly into the clutch assembly, and perhaps even go back backwards into gearbox, which would not be very pleasant.

Was quoted $670 for a new part from FORD NZ. As you may have worked out by now, I'm on a very tight budget - so that ain't happening. It took me months to find this gearbox and pay the $500 for it.

Have been quoted $300 or so for metal spraying it etc etc etc.

I may just try and stick it in a lathe, turn some off to make all the sides even, fill some gaps with HANS' liquid steel... And then try and bash a warm pipe of brass or something over the whole bloody lot.

If it fails before I get it in the car then I ain't lost much... Then again, if it works, sweet.

These T5's are rare as hens teeth in good nick, unless you are spending thousands and thousands.....

Am still interested to see how much the Tremac Aussie distributor hi-torque.com.au come back to me with.

http://www.fordmods.com/forums/post931849.html#931849

Am ringing Mal Wood right now too, leave a message they say. OK. --- apart from they don't actually say "leave a message" at all. They don't even have an answerphone turned on. You Aussies are a funny bunch. All so damn busy (or important) that you don't actually need any customers getting hold of you. No website. No email. No answerphone. And yet this is the company who supplies a lot of parts to professional race teams?.. Hell, wish I was in Aussie.... Must be really cruisy.
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:26 pm 
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dude before u bash the sleave over it

freeze the damn thing in the freezer for about 1 hr
or use locktie freeze in a can :)

and warm up the sleave
bash it on then allow to cool via air
should be nice and tight :)

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:29 pm 
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:13 pm 
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Did you try mal wood? Otherwise try the states. T5s are still everywhere there.

 

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