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brake fade versus pedal effort 

 

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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:38 pm 
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Yeah, not a good idea to play with the hydraulics aspect of the brakes system unless you know exactly what you're doing.
Another area that can get unbalanced is the proportioning valve operation - it has a 'split' point pressure after which pressure to the rear brakes is proportioned - 'E' sedans/XG/XH utes/vans have the same split point, 'E' wagons have a higher pressure split.

So if you replace a master cylinder, make sure the split point is the same - it's normally stamped on the large offset nut on the mast cyl front.

 

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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:07 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
FLASH wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
more brake booster would also lead to an overly sensitve brake pedal.

and a smaller master cyl will cause long pedal travel.

if 'cheap' options like that worked properly, people would be doing it.


And a sensitive brake pedal is a bad thing? I fitted the dual booster to my car and its great! It may sound like a contradiction but you do get increased braking force for less brake pedal pressure and you can also "feel" the grip level better through the pedal. Hence, can use those s**t stock brakes more effectively.

You say "if cheap options like that work than people would be doing it" well Tickford did do it! and they obviously did it for a reason, and it worked. So unless you've done this mod and can argue to the contrary... get you facts straight. Do you know more than the engineers at Tickford?



yes a sensitive brake pedal IS a bad thing. if you ever get a chance, test drive a 2005 camery altise. you'll soon learn how much it sucks.
What it can also lead to is over braking in a panic/emergency situation.
this is very bad in a car with no ABS.

It doesn't sound like a contradiction, because thats what the brake booster does. It's letting you achieve more master cylinder piston travel for the same pedal effort.


as for your last comment RE: the engineers at tickford.

the original post was broad statment and was not model specific, Tickford made an upgrade to a particular model. They would have also done ALOT of testing to get the pedal to feel right and have the brakes perform in the right way.

Fitting a factory option like the duel booster from the XR or from ANY EF/L
will not cause an overly sensitive pedal because it was designed to be there.

the problem with jumping on a forum and posting things like that is some people believe every thing the read with out question. The original post was far to general and could lead to some people making some very bad choices.


jumping in an changing things like piston size is asking for trouble,

if you need a 'softer' pedal, you probably just need to hit the gym and beef up your right leg a bit. on a street car the ONLY benefit to 'upgrading' any part of the brakes aside from the pads and maybe rotors is purely the WANK factor.


I agree with you 100% with not fooling with the hydraulics, its just an area where if things did go wrong it could cause alot of s**t. If some one else wanted to play around there and it was a proven mod then yeah id do it.

The original poster mention fitting a dual diaphragm brake booster and although was not model specific about the only thing i would think he would be talking about was fitting the tickford unit to the early e-series and seeing as this is a factory mod why not do it? there cheap (i got mine for $30) and do make a difference. I am yet to here of a "after market" dual diaphragm booster or anybody fitting one from a different car so he would have to be talking about the tickford one? Why would you stuff around and fit anything different? unless he meant fit a whole new booster and master cylinder from a different model/type of car? :?

Im sorry but imo i would prefer a sensitive pedal to one that feels like a house brick. At Least you can feel the point of lockup.
Oh and my right legs fine BTW :lol:
I haven't driven a car yet (non ABS) that cant lock its brakes when put to the floor which is what usually happens in an emergency, so sensitive or not its not going to matter when that person pulls or in front of you.

But i suppose looking back through what we have all said we could all be accused (me included) of not being exactly specific with all of our statements.

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:17 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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FLASH wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
FLASH wrote:
tickford_6 wrote:
more brake booster would also lead to an overly sensitve brake pedal.

and a smaller master cyl will cause long pedal travel.

if 'cheap' options like that worked properly, people would be doing it.


And a sensitive brake pedal is a bad thing? I fitted the dual booster to my car and its great! It may sound like a contradiction but you do get increased braking force for less brake pedal pressure and you can also "feel" the grip level better through the pedal. Hence, can use those s**t stock brakes more effectively.

You say "if cheap options like that work than people would be doing it" well Tickford did do it! and they obviously did it for a reason, and it worked. So unless you've done this mod and can argue to the contrary... get you facts straight. Do you know more than the engineers at Tickford?



yes a sensitive brake pedal IS a bad thing. if you ever get a chance, test drive a 2005 camery altise. you'll soon learn how much it sucks.
What it can also lead to is over braking in a panic/emergency situation.
this is very bad in a car with no ABS.

It doesn't sound like a contradiction, because thats what the brake booster does. It's letting you achieve more master cylinder piston travel for the same pedal effort.


as for your last comment RE: the engineers at tickford.

the original post was broad statment and was not model specific, Tickford made an upgrade to a particular model. They would have also done ALOT of testing to get the pedal to feel right and have the brakes perform in the right way.

Fitting a factory option like the duel booster from the XR or from ANY EF/L
will not cause an overly sensitive pedal because it was designed to be there.

the problem with jumping on a forum and posting things like that is some people believe every thing the read with out question. The original post was far to general and could lead to some people making some very bad choices.


jumping in an changing things like piston size is asking for trouble,

if you need a 'softer' pedal, you probably just need to hit the gym and beef up your right leg a bit. on a street car the ONLY benefit to 'upgrading' any part of the brakes aside from the pads and maybe rotors is purely the WANK factor.


I agree with you 100% with not fooling with the hydraulics, its just an area where if things did go wrong it could cause alot of s**t. If some one else wanted to play around there and it was a proven mod then yeah id do it.

The original poster mention fitting a dual diaphragm brake booster and although was not model specific about the only thing i would think he would be talking about was fitting the tickford unit to the early e-series and seeing as this is a factory mod why not do it? there cheap (i got mine for $30) and do make a difference. I am yet to here of a "after market" dual diaphragm booster or anybody fitting one from a different car so he would have to be talking about the tickford one? Why would you stuff around and fit anything different? unless he meant fit a whole new booster and master cylinder from a different model/type of car? :?

Im sorry but imo i would prefer a sensitive pedal to one that feels like a house brick. At Least you can feel the point of lockup.
Oh and my right legs fine BTW :lol:
I haven't driven a car yet (non ABS) that cant lock its brakes when put to the floor which is what usually happens in an emergency, so sensitive or not its not going to matter when that person pulls or in front of you.

But i suppose looking back through what we have all said we could all be accused (me included) of not being exactly specific with all of our statements.


true true.

I guess i'm the opposite to you. I like a firm pedal.
My escort is going to have no brake booster at all (mostly a track car) , our daily driver AU is a little on the soft side for my likings. BUT i'm sure my wife likes it just the way it is.

 

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