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 Post subject: Brake problem
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:34 am 
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Hi all,

For a few months now i have had a very long/spongy brake pedle. I was thinking that it was because my front rotors were below minimum and the pads were almost gone.

I decided to get some dba slotters, ebc green stuff pads for the front and braided brake lines all round.

I also noticed this time after bleading the brakes that the fail warning light was not on after i stared the car as it always has before after a brake blead.

I done a search on here and found in one of the threads someone said to undo the the plug on the bottom of the master cylinder to reset the fail safe, but still the brake pedel is really long ( almost to the floor before i get any brake reaction )

Does this mean my master cyclinder stuffed or is it something else?

Bucko

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:49 am 
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I think your on the money Me Bucko...

vik...nothing else left is there :? :? :?

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:12 am 
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i had the same issue when i fitted slotted rotors to the front of my car due to warped rotors...

but mine are slowly adjusting themselves. i think your booster is on the way out. if only you lived near me... i have 2 sitting here doing nothing

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:13 am 
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ok........ now im confused. :?

I thought that the brake booster only determined how hard the pedle is and the master cyclinder determined how far the pedle goes down??

cause when i disconnect the vacume line to the booster and plug the vacume line up, the pedle is really hard to push down, but i still have to push the pedle to the floor almost to get any brake response.

is the brake booster out of a nf the same as an ef? i might try swaping them on the weekend, but i think the booster that is on the car is doing what it should be.

Bucko

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:28 am 
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hey mate

i got the same problem, same setup (without the braided lines)

basically, it aint anything at the wheels. ive had all mine checked, bearings replaced, slides un-ceased, diff oil leak fixed. no change. all nipples are fine, all good

mechanic says it will more than likely by the ABS module. personally i dont believe this, i believe it to be the master cylinder.

im getting it looked at later in this week (again - different place). mate ill update this and let you know if this is the problem or otherwise

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:41 pm 
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i have the same prob, and replaced my master cylinder and i still have the same prob.

i was going to change to a different brand of pads,as someone suggested it could be that. ive had everything else checked over, bearings etc and its been re-bled about 20 times by now!

if the pads dont work im going to get one of those 4 spot setups from CMS as im over this.

to b e fair though, its just a long pedal, once they do bite, they pull up very well. just not over confidencec inspiring having a brake pedal going half way to the floor.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Brake problem
Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:39 pm 
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BUCKO wrote:
I also noticed this time after bleading the brakes that the fail warning light was not on after i stared the car as it always has before after a brake blead.


Why did you bleed the brakes?

Sounds more like they've got air still in them.

 

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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:32 pm 
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so mash85, the new master cylinder didnt help???

mine r the same, long pedal but when they do bite they pull damn hard/ im thinkin of just living with it (they get better when they heat up)

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:28 am 
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Quote:
Why did you bleed the brakes?

Sounds more like they've got air still in them.


I bled the brakes as I put braided brake lines on. Went through 2 bottles of brake fluid as I done a fluid change as i though that the brake fluid i was using could have been the problem.


Quote:
to b e fair though, its just a long pedal, once they do bite, they pull up very well. just not over confidencec inspiring having a brake pedal going half way to the floor.


I would be happy if the pedal went half way to the floor before the brakes worked. Mine start to bite about 1 1/2" from the floor and start to work properly about 1" from the floor.



I have also put a seal kit through both of the front calipers.

Since this problem was there before i put the rotors pads lines and seal kit on, only thing that is left is the booster and master cyclinder unless i have miss some thing else?

Bucko

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:35 am 
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How much is your firewall flexing when you hit the brakes :? Only other thing I can think of that could cause the symptom when you've apparently fixed everything else.
They all have a little bit of flex (got demonstrated to me recently how much, and how much even just a bit of right angle steel bolted to strut mount with a bolt against the master cylinder can reduce the length of the brake pedal), but maybe yours has more then usual? Booster may be loose perhaps?

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:21 pm 
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BUCKO wrote:
Quote:
Why did you bleed the brakes?

Sounds more like they've got air still in them.


I bled the brakes as I put braided brake lines on. Went through 2 bottles of brake fluid as I done a fluid change as i though that the brake fluid i was using could have been the problem.
Bucko


Sorry I missed that part about changing the brake lines! :oops:

I assume you've tried bleeding them again.

Other than that the strut tower brace Steady ED suggests will do wonders.

 

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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:16 pm 
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sounds like you definatly have air in the circuit somewhere.. I suspect it will be in the rear circuit, not having a balance bar on the brakes if there is a cushion there of air then it press on that and not the fluid..

I have had a similar issue, more than likely a pocket in the rear circuit.. I have the same setup minus the slotted but + dot 5 fluid. thats where the issue was in my application

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:08 am 
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i (having the same setup without the braided lines) had my system pressure bled twice last week

only made marginal difference to the brakes. im thinking it may just be the pads. guess racing pads just arent that great in regular street driving?!

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am 
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i dont think it is the pads as i had this problem before, but im not going to rule them out yet.

i am using fluid that can be used in dot 3, 4 and 5.1 systems

last night i tightned up the booster bolts, it wasnt loose but i could do it up a bit more and it made a slight improvement but not much.

on the weekend will make a brace and then bleed the brakes again to see if that helps.

does anyone know if a master cyclinder from a 95 NF will fit a 95 EF????
i think i have an old one sitting around here somewhere, cant remember if it worked or not.

Bucko

 

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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:17 pm 
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well i would like to think its not the pads, they cost a fortune!

let us know how you go. i might go and tighten evereything round the cylinder/booster in a sec and see if that makes any difference

 

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