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Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ? 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:52 pm 
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probly get a proper shift kit or go manual.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:58 pm 
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they should be bw 78 series only earlier falcons like xd to ea had the bw 75 series.. as mentioned a few time there are heaps of high power falcons running these diffs..and they are pushing heaps more power and torque than any n/a 6 could..

from memory there is only one e series i know of thats running a 9".. the rest are running the b/w
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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:00 am 
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TROYMAN wrote:
they should be bw 78 series only earlier falcons like xd to ea had the bw 75 series.. as mentioned a few time there are heaps of high power falcons running these diffs...and they are pushing heaps more power and torque than any n/a 6 could...

from memory there is only onies i know thats running a 9".. the rest are running the b/w


I can confirm 3 Turbo E Series running 9" Diffs. SLOXR6 (250rwkw) Fritzz (480ish rwkw) and Hi Boost (660rwkw)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:06 am 
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i knew of atleast one,,,lol

while a 9" can be stronger. i have seen them break with less power then most are pushing through the b/w..
i think the failure in this case is from bad assembly/bad gears or serious serious abuse...
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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:14 am 
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TROYMAN wrote:
i knew of atleast one,,,lol

while a 9" can be stronger. i have seen them break with less power then most are pushing through the b/w..
i think the failure in this case is from bad assembly/bad gears or serious serious abuse...


Bold section. My AU cops serious abuse, and my biggest drama is snapped halfshafts (cause by 4WD Systems Lokka, since removed, no dramas) followed by a collapsed pinion bearing.

Who is assembling the diff makes an integral part, my next diff (3.73 gears and a KAAZ) will be assembled by Mal Wood.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:27 am 
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remember VL turbos run the same style diff, plenty of guys pushing big power through these diffs, and as mentioned above quite a few falcons with big power also.
i find it hard to believe an NA falcon would be braking diff gears due to power/torque alone and it is definitely not from the shift kit lol!

i agree with all thats said above in regards to the diff possibly not being setup correctly.
did you notice any excessive backlash or noise when it was running?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:35 pm 
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if you're breaking diffs maybe you should re-evaluate your driving style.
Its a frickin family sedan - not a race car!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:05 pm 
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67RCE wrote:

dude, Falcons run BW 78 gears, as they are a BW78! if it had over run noise, something was not within spec!


TROYMAN wrote:
they should be bw 78 series only earlier falcons like xd to ea had the bw 75 series.. as mentioned a few time there are heaps of high power falcons running these diffs..and they are pushing heaps more power and torque than any n/a 6 could..

from memory there is only one e series i know of thats running a 9".. the rest are running the b/w


Some run BW75, I've seen EFs with the 75 diff. I've had the problem before with people buying their own gears and asking me to fit them. They buy 78 gears and turn up and their car has a 75 diff.


You can see in the guys photos that the pinion teeth have been running of the end of the crown teeth, it's always going to break like that. The wear also seems to be quite high.
Problem stems from incorrect setup, mainly the pinion wasn't deep enough.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Mitch_ wrote:
if you're breaking diffs maybe you should re-evaluate your driving style.
Its a frickin family sedan - not a race car!


Its a race car alright. Thats what i have it for and that is what i like doing with it. For about 6 months i was taking it to Willowbank every Wednesday. i have brought the car from a 17 sec Grandpa spec falcon with country pack suspension and a bull bar down to 14s and that is what i enjoy doing with the car. Two of the diffs were factory set Xr diffs with 3.45 gears and the Diff i rebuilt was Quieter. I replaced all bearings and seals put the Lokka in and shimmed it to manufactures specifications and set the gears according to the service manual. It lasted longer than the other diffs. I have just got another 3.45 XR6 diff that i will be installing with the lokka. Here is hoping it lasts longer.

What would you call serious abuse. I have the original motor and gearbox the car has done 260 xxx Km I am only replacing the motor because i want to go quicker and i have reached the limit of the old motor and there was no point putting my Tickford head on an old block.

I noticed that everyone seems to be telling me to change my habits or the way the car is driven but that is not the problem. The diff is breaking and i was looking for other options Like a 9" not a lesson on how not to break cars. I can drive a car and not break it but i like taking the car to its limits breaking it and they trying again.

B/W 75 and 78 series gear sets have 60 tho difference in pinion depth otherwise close to identical.

Thanks Michael
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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:42 pm 
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TriggerHappy wrote:
Mitch_ wrote:
if you're breaking diffs maybe you should re-evaluate your driving style.
Its a frickin family sedan - not a race car!


Its a race car alright. Thats what i have it for and that is what i like doing with it. For about 6 months i was taking it to Willowbank every Wednesday. i have brought the car from a 17 sec Grandpa spec falcon with country pack suspension and a bull bar down to 14s and that is what i enjoy doing with the car. Two of the diffs were factory set Xr diffs with 3.45 gears and the Diff i rebuilt was Quieter. I replaced all bearings and seals put the Lokka in and shimmed it to manufactures specifications and set the gears according to the service manual. It lasted longer than the other diffs. I have just got another 3.45 XR6 diff that i will be installing with the lokka. Here is hoping it lasts longer.

What would you call serious abuse. I have the original motor and gearbox the car has done 260 xxx Km I am only replacing the motor because i want to go quicker and i have reached the limit of the old motor and there was no point putting my Tickford head on an old block.

I noticed that everyone seems to be telling me to change my habits or the way the car is driven but that is not the problem. The diff is breaking and i was looking for other options Like a 9" not a lesson on how not to break cars. I can drive a car and not break it but i like taking the car to its limits breaking it and they trying again.

B/W 75 and 78 series gear sets have 60 tho difference in pinion depth otherwise close to identical.

Thanks Michael


I'm not telling you to change your habits, I'm saying the diff isn't assembled properly. I know for a fact there are a few Turbo Falcons here in Brisbane running BW78's with ALOT more power than you have, getting more abuse, yet not breaking diffs.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:54 pm 
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TriggerHappy wrote:
Mitch_ wrote:
if you're breaking diffs maybe you should re-evaluate your driving style.
Its a frickin family sedan - not a race car!


Its a race car alright. Thats what i have it for and that is what i like doing with it. For about 6 months i was taking it to Willowbank every Wednesday.


negative - its a family sedan that you like thrashing the fuk outta...
closer to a money pit that a race car :lol: :roll:

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:58 pm 
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Mitch_ wrote:
TriggerHappy wrote:
Mitch_ wrote:
if you're breaking diffs maybe you should re-evaluate your driving style.
Its a frickin family sedan - not a race car!


Its a race car alright. Thats what i have it for and that is what i like doing with it. For about 6 months i was taking it to Willowbank every Wednesday.


negative - its a family sedan that you like thrashing the fuk outta...
closer to a money pit that a race car :lol: :roll:

Hey Mitch, since you moved on to the expensive E Series, you must have received the memo, EF's are the EA's of 5 years ago. The VN of the Falcon scene!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:36 am 
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When you say you are buildig it to factory spec, maybe it'd pay to check that the factory spec you are going by is correct. As has been previously stated, it appears the pinion wasn't deep enough, causing the gears to mesh at the end of the teeth, which is where they're the weakest, as I'm sure you are well aware.

I wouldn't blame the gears or the shift kit for this problem, nor your driving style. It'll definitely be in the setup. I'm sure you like to be able to do it yourself, but maybe take it to a diff specialist and have them install your new gears for you. You'll probably find the coin you spend to be worth it.

Would you recommend a car diff specialist install a truck diff for one of your customers?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 1:41 am 
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67RCE wrote:
Mitch_ wrote:
TriggerHappy wrote:
Mitch_ wrote:
if you're breaking diffs maybe you should re-evaluate your driving style.
Its a frickin family sedan - not a race car!


Its a race car alright. Thats what i have it for and that is what i like doing with it. For about 6 months i was taking it to Willowbank every Wednesday.


negative - its a family sedan that you like thrashing the fuk outta...
closer to a money pit that a race car :lol: :roll:

Hey Mitch, since you moved on to the expensive E Series, you must have received the memo, EF's are the EA's of 5 years ago. The VN of the Falcon scene!




Het,

I resemble that comment.

Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: Breaking diffs - WHAT NEXT ?
Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:44 am 
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TriggerHappy wrote:
I have broken two factory 3.45 XR diffs and now the 3.89 Lokka. The skyline gears in the 3.89 diff were in great condition and never really loaded. They are out of a known station wagon R31 that was always cared for. I built the diff the same way we rebuild the truck diffs (Eaton and Rockwell) using the service manual for specs and following the book. The diff had slight overrun noise but was quieter in general than the XR diffs. As for size of gears the Skyline and falcon both ran Borg Warner 75 series gears, so there was no problem there.

So what do the cars that are crushing these diffs do ? there must be an upgrade. That is what i am interested in.



There's your problem. The noise from the falcon diff is the warn pinion bearings whilst your R31 noise is from incorrect lash. I'm guessing your E series diffs are 300,000km+ units in need of a rebuild. Once you can actually hear the noise in these things you've got about 10-20,000kms before they just go bang on you. I haven't been there, I've been close but I know a few people that have been there at the bang moment.

They may both be 75 series diffs but like oils aint oils, diffs aint diffs.
As for your skyline a*** conversion, factory specs are worth toilet paper to you in this case. You are putting skyline gears into a different diff housing. The correct procedure is to use engineering paint and check for lash and meshing problems like that. Not by matching a set of numbers which are wrong for your application and accepting them as gospel.

As for upgrades, the only ones I know of are square tube bracing on the rear of the diff (or top and bottom of the diff) from the ends of the axle tubes to the centre housing, and splash plates in the axle tubes to stop the oil leaving the centre housing under high g forces. Don't worry, you don't need those cause your not pushing the 800rwhp or so that these cars make.
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