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can increased track be made legal? 

 

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 Post subject: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:02 am 
Getting Side Ways
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As far as i've been told/read it is illegal to modify a vehicle's track by a significant amount, and to use hub adapters. But can either or both of these become legal with an engineers report?

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:48 am 
Getting Side Ways
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increased track is legal with engineers report, but only 40mm on the front and 60mm on the back (this is in victoria BTW) no hub adapters/spacers EVER!

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:54 am 
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Quote:
An important requirement for all replacement wheels is that the wheel track must not be increased by more than 25mm beyond the maximum specified by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle.
Where non original axle or suspension components are fitted, the offset of the wheel in relation to the axle or stub axle assembly used shall not be increased by more than 12.5mm each side of the vehicle based on the specifications if the axle components used. If an axle assembly is shortened then the track width limit is taken as the axle manufacturers original track dimension, less the amount the assembly has been narrowed, plus 25mm.


Quote:
Wheels up to 26mm wider than the largest optional wheel recommended by the vehicle manufacturer for the
vehicle can be fitted without the need to notify the RTA.



http://rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/down ... 9_rev4.pdf

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:11 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Thanks for that. The rta info is simple and comprehensive.

Maybe i would need to modify the front suspension to achieve the BA offroader concept, but i wouldn't know till i started checking things out. A critical challenge is likely to be clearance between the upper ball joint and wheel. Cross fingers 20" rims would fit over, but probably not(?), or at least push the tyre sidewall high enough to be out of the way.

I can see the rta's point in being careful about offsets. When i fitted 30mm hub adapters to the front the steering became almost heavy and felt wooden, not very informative about the general situation. I still considered it safe, but when i replaced them with 20mm units the steering was basically back to normal. 10mm made a big difference. And my 20mm units may only work for me because my O.D. is much larger.

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:05 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Territory front suspension?

From memory when FTG put the XR8 Suspension in the Territory they had to use E-Series Offset wheels to get the wheels to sit in the correct position in relation to the body.

which would suggest that the terri had a wider track.

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:43 pm 
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In Qld it is 25mm for cars ( IF Macpherson strut suspension - NILmm ), and on 4X4's 50mm.
No hub spacers allowed.

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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EFFalcon wrote:
Territory front suspension?

From memory when FTG put the XR8 Suspension in the Territory they had to use E-Series Offset wheels to get the wheels to sit in the correct position in relation to the body.

which would suggest that the terri had a wider track.

The terri runs larger O.D. wheels than the falcon, so it might be easier to fit even larger O.D. wheels to. But how easy would it be to fit terri front gear to a falcon? Maybe the RTV uses terri front suspension?

Why did they fit XR8 front suspension to a terri? Lower ride height?

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Could the post AU rear axle bearings cope with pre-AU offset rims?

Is the post AU rear axle constructed the same way as earlier axle's except with a wider housing?

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
The terri runs larger O.D. wheels than the falcon, so it might be easier to fit even larger O.D. wheels to. But how easy would it be to fit terri front gear to a falcon? Maybe the RTV uses terri front suspension?

Why did they fit XR8 front suspension to a terri? Lower ride height?


Correct, Territory suspension would be win win, more clearance for wheels, wider track and a suspension meant to be higher.

i'm guessing they fitted the XR8 suspension to make the V8 conversion easier.
with the added bonus of having a slammed terri.

xr8 dismantler wrote:
EFFalcon wrote:
it needs E-Series offset wheels?


yes the wheels are e series.

the territory body & wheelarches are wider than falcon so it needs a different offset to keep the track the same.


These are apparently E-Series offset wheels, and you can see they're still tucked under the body with the BA suspension.

Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:43 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Could the post AU rear axle bearings cope with pre-AU offset rims?

Is the post AU rear axle constructed the same way as earlier axle's except with a wider housing?


Don't know, but i've seen a few AU's running eseries wheels, admittedly they've been 6 or 7" wide wheels, and likely not put into stressful situations.

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:00 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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EFFalcon wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Could the post AU rear axle bearings cope with pre-AU offset rims?

Is the post AU rear axle constructed the same way as earlier axle's except with a wider housing?


Don't know, but i've seen a few AU's running eseries wheels, admittedly they've been 6 or 7" wide wheels, and likely not put into stressful situations.

I guess i would like to know if e-series rims could be engineered for BA. Same goes for the front, we know e-series bearings can cope with e-series offset, but can BA bearings cope with e-series offset, or are they somehow lesser or positioned differently?

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:06 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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EFFalcon wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
The terri runs larger O.D. wheels than the falcon, so it might be easier to fit even larger O.D. wheels to. But how easy would it be to fit terri front gear to a falcon? Maybe the RTV uses terri front suspension?

Why did they fit XR8 front suspension to a terri? Lower ride height?


Correct, Territory suspension would be win win, more clearance for wheels, wider track and a suspension meant to be higher.

So what would be involved in the conversion?
Would i be better to fit RTV stub axles or 2wd terri ones, or are they the same?
The RTV seems to have a thingy hanging down low, it may be a swaybar mount, but i haven't noticed this on the terri, what is that and what does it mean?
Would i be tempted to go further and use 4wd terri axles and driveline and make it 4wd? Modify the floorpan to fit the extra components?

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:34 am 
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I can't really answer that.
I don't know enough about the Territory to comment, But i'm sure others have looked into it more so then i have.

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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A great thing about the falcon wagon is it has so much space. When a 6'5" person tries to sleep in the back of most 4wd's, there is simply not enough room. A landcruiser is probably okay, same for a patrol, but if you want more room, get a falcon wagon!

Back on the topic, i'm hoping for some more info on terri components versus RTV versus BA wagon. If only they had based their 4wd on the wagon, rather than make a skyscraper with less wheel travel and less load length.

 

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 Post subject: Re: can increased track be made legal?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:26 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
....
Back on the topic, i'm hoping for some more info on terri components versus RTV versus BA wagon. If only they had based their 4wd on the wagon, rather than make a skyscraper with less wheel travel and less load length.


I can answer all those questions for you, though perhaps this deserves it's own thread.

First off the Territory and the RTV do not share any suspension components.

The RTV achieves lift by spacing down all the pickup points of essentially an AU_BA/F type suspension. The item not spaced down is the steering rack, instead the tie-rod is flipped from below to above the arm on the spindle (the taper is reversed and maybe slightly relocated, hence different part numbers are used).

A Territory on the other hand has a longer spindle/upright (now called a knuckle) which also happens to have 2 lower balljoints and a front mounted steering rack (EA-BF Falcon is rear mount) to create what Ford call a "Virtual Pivot" front suspension. A similar design is also used on the latest FG Falcon. The Territory front crossmember is spaced down from the frame rails compared to a Falcon to make space for the diff (where used) and achieve the extra height. Thus Territory's do not have much more ground clearance than a regular Falcon, the RTV is better in this regard.

FTG were able to fit a Falcon front end in their V8 Territory as the frame rails are in the same position. This is necessary to fit the V8 to avoid fouling on the front mounted steering. Thus why no one has made a V8 AWD yet, they can't use Falcon parts.

Anything else you want to know just ask.

Are there details of your lifted EL mentioned in your sig on the forum anywhere?
[EDIT] don't worry, just found your thread.
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