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Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII 

 

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 Post subject: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:13 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: Sydney
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Hey everyone,

I've just started modifying my 6 cyl EBII s-pac's suspension in order to get the best possible performance ON and OFF the track. Asthetics aside, i want to acheive the best possible road feel / driving experience possible. Given these goals i know there'll be some compromises involved and i'd like to know what you guys think.

First dilemma: I've just gotten some 1 inch low King Springs, Monroe GTs and K-Mac camber / caster kits put in. The car definately feels better and i chose only 1 inch low because i was basically following the rule '1 inch for performance, 2 inches for asthetics' with regard to lowering. Now the car doesn't look noticably lower at all and i just thought of double checking http://www.falconfacts.net/ to make sure the s-pacs didnt come out lower from the factory, which it says they did.

So purely for performance reasons, would you keep this ride height or lower it another inch? Apparently you can take em back to King Springs and they'll retension them to whatever height for like 100 bucks or something.

The second thing is that it does still body roll quite significantly. Its better than before, but still not as stable as i had pictured in my head. So my thoughts turn to sway bars.

What thickness front and /or rear sway bars have proven to reduce body roll without introducing a worrying amount of understeer (taking account i can get the camber adjusted to match the amount of roll) ?? I ask for 'proven' because i have the option of either buying heavy duty sway bar(s) or buying whiteline 3 way adjustable sway bars (obviously less desireable for the wallet). With the adjustables i can just make it as tight as possible and then loosen the front in increments until im happy with the under/oversteer, but again they're expensive.

I haven't heard much about what the guys on here are running in terms of sway bars and spring/shock combos when it comes STRICTLY DOWN TO PERFORMANCE.

Any tips or experience help.
Cheers.
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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:17 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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only 1 inch lowered from standard? too high. i have superlow king springs and renewed all my bushes, tie rod ends, ball joints etc

handles awesome. my brother (who drives a commodore) always comments on how awesome it handles when he drives it

 

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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:45 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EL fairmont offroader

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When i see the word "ideal" mixed with "monroe GT shocks", i see a contradiction. I think monroe's are usually quite decent and can last a long time, i would buy them over many things, but they don't compare with say a bilstein. A bilstein sport would be closer to ideal, and would significantly reduce body roll. Otherwise you might consider ultima or pedders sport etc.

2" lowered is great for the track but can often restrict you on the road. Shorter shocks than std can help, and the spring stiffness and size wheels you use plays a role too. I think the s-pac is 20mm lower, just less than an inch. In your situation i might consider 1.5" lower if normal diameter wheels are fitted, but there are other factors to consider such as local roads, driving patterns, etc. If you want to go lower try and swap for lower coils rather than get a reset. I would really try to avoid a reset.

Will you be fitting a roll cage? A steel one should significantly stiffen the chassis which makes the car handle much better. The EB chassis isn't woeful but it is a major restriction towards what you want to achieve. Stiffer anti-roll bars are a good idea but when you hit bumps will twist the chassis even more, and the chassis has no damping.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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andrej250 wrote:
Hey everyone,

I've just started modifying my 6 cyl EBII s-pac's suspension in order to get the best possible performance ON and OFF the track. Asthetics aside, i want to acheive the best possible road feel / driving experience possible. Given these goals i know there'll be some compromises involved and i'd like to know what you guys think.

First dilemma: I've just gotten some 1 inch low King Springs, Monroe GTs and K-Mac camber / caster kits put in. The car definately feels better and i chose only 1 inch low because i was basically following the rule '1 inch for performance, 2 inches for asthetics' with regard to lowering. Now the car doesn't look noticably lower at all and i just thought of double checking http://www.falconfacts.net/ to make sure the s-pacs didnt come out lower from the factory, which it says they did.

So purely for performance reasons, would you keep this ride height or lower it another inch? Apparently you can take em back to King Springs and they'll retension them to whatever height for like 100 bucks or something.

The second thing is that it does still body roll quite significantly. Its better than before, but still not as stable as i had pictured in my head. So my thoughts turn to sway bars.

What thickness front and /or rear sway bars have proven to reduce body roll without introducing a worrying amount of understeer (taking account i can get the camber adjusted to match the amount of roll) ?? I ask for 'proven' because i have the option of either buying heavy duty sway bar(s) or buying whiteline 3 way adjustable sway bars (obviously less desireable for the wallet). With the adjustables i can just make it as tight as possible and then loosen the front in increments until im happy with the under/oversteer, but again they're expensive.

I haven't heard much about what the guys on here are running in terms of sway bars and spring/shock combos when it comes STRICTLY DOWN TO PERFORMANCE.

Any tips or experience help.
Cheers.


Hey matey, I just recently put a set of AU XR6 springs/Struts and ED Sprint springs(rear) in a mates ED. The result was great. Haven't gotten around to a Sway bar yet but the AU T series bar is 27MM, maybe a good size to look for? Before anyone tells you that this CAN'T be done with the AU stuff.....
Attachment:
smDSCF2106.JPG


Here is the finished product:
Attachment:
sm_DSCF2158.JPG
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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:01 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ride: Ford / ED Fairmont

Location: Tamworth
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AU front hey, what happens with the offset there? does this mean u have to run pre au rims on the front and spacers in the rear? or is it the same as the ed?
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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:13 am 
Getting Side Ways
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edvct wrote:
AU front hey, what happens with the offset there? does this mean u have to run pre au rims on the front and spacers in the rear? or is it the same as the ed?


Has NO effect on the offset. I just put the wheels back on, which are 17" pre AU offset. They are better springs anyway because they are progresive rate ones. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:53 pm 
Smokin em up
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I have the whiteline adjustable 30mm on the front (It's set at the 2nd stiffest setting which is basically the same as a non adjustable 30mm) and a 24mm rear whiteline bar. It didn't change the oversteer/understeer balance of the car, It's fairly neutral.
According to King, superlow springs are a softer rate than just low ones , so the low ones should stop the roll better. Also monroe gt's are fairly soft shocks, try pushing down on the side of the car with your hands. Do it on some cars with stiffer shocks and the car won't move.
I also recommend tightening up the rear watts link (all 5 bolts to about 85nm). Mine were a bit loose and it got rid of the slight twitchyness in the rear. Obviously doing the bushes and ball joints is good if they're worn too.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Papa Smurf wrote:
edvct wrote:
AU front hey, what happens with the offset there? does this mean u have to run pre au rims on the front and spacers in the rear? or is it the same as the ed?


Has NO effect on the offset. I just put the wheels back on, which are 17" pre AU offset. They are better springs anyway because they are progresive rate ones. :)


Progressive rate springs are a crock of s**t. They don't work in a street car, or a race car. And before anyone shoots me down, this is from a SUSPENSION GURU who has done nothing but suspension work for over 25 years.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:08 pm 
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67RCE wrote:
Papa Smurf wrote:
edvct wrote:
AU front hey, what happens with the offset there? does this mean u have to run pre au rims on the front and spacers in the rear? or is it the same as the ed?


Has NO effect on the offset. I just put the wheels back on, which are 17" pre AU offset. They are better springs anyway because they are progresive rate ones. :)


Progressive rate springs are a crock of s**t. They don't work in a street car, or a race car. And before anyone shoots me down, this is from a SUSPENSION GURU who has done nothing but suspension work for over 25 years.


well, technically speaking almost all coil springs are progressive...
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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:12 am 
Getting Side Ways
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67RCE wrote:
Papa Smurf wrote:
edvct wrote:
AU front hey, what happens with the offset there? does this mean u have to run pre au rims on the front and spacers in the rear? or is it the same as the ed?


Has NO effect on the offset. I just put the wheels back on, which are 17" pre AU offset. They are better springs anyway because they are progresive rate ones. :)


Progressive rate springs are a crock of s**t. They don't work in a street car, or a race car. And before anyone shoots me down, this is from a SUSPENSION GURU who has done nothing but suspension work for over 25 years.


Your opinion and you don't need to be so demonstrative about it. Amazing, Ford should have asked your suspension Guru before they went to the trouble of making them.
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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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A spring can have variance in the pitch of its coils but until one or more of those coils bind the rate is an average of all the coils. It acts just like a normal spring of an equivalent rate, until there is some coil bind, and then the rate goes up.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Chasing Ideal Suspension Setup for EBII
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:55 am 
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koni yellows or bilstein sports shock absorbers
lovells 'superlow' springs
whiteline 30mm front and 24mm rear bars
ED XR diff and upper arms
EL diff hat
polyurethane bushes
possibly extended rear shock hats, i cant remember how low my lovells superlows sat though.

i ran a full whiteline and nolathane kit in my old ED, but the above is what i would do now if i wanted an ED to handle for not crazy money and still be nice on the street.
i've had all the above parts in one of my EDs at some time, except the EL diff hat because i could never find anyone who'd seperate one :lol:

oh, and a good wheel alignment, i found ED XR spec toe (0mm) and camber (from memory about 1.5deg neg a side) specs with as much castor (again, memory, but i think they got about 4.5-5deg with mine) as possible to work really well on the street.
also a smaller diameter steering wheel, that and the wheel alignment really made my ED a hoot to drive.
definitely ditch the monroes!!!

 

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