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Cluchless Shift 

 

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 Post subject: Cluchless Shift
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:26 pm 
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We've all heard stories about old truckies in there day(60's-70's), doing the cluchless shifts, with there syncoless boxes. And as well they only use the chuch on the even gears in the V8 supercars.

Now my question is this. With my T5, is it possible and what would it do to it?
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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you can do it in just bout any manual!

u just have to have the right amount of revs so the syncho's open a little then gently push it in

but its not good for the box so dont do it otherwise u could find urself up for a new box!

 

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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:09 pm 
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A mate of mine had his clutch fork assembly snap on him while driving in his Supra (OS Giken twin plate clutch as well) ... he managed to get home driving the car perfectly without a clutch ... he even raced a few people and beat them ... was a pain when you had to stop at traffic lights ... at least his start motor weas strong enough to get him going from standstill.

Although he can really drive ... didn't crunch one gearchange the whole way home ... was about a 20km drive as well through light traffic.

I tried it ... not the easiest of things to do ... you need to know at each precise rev-point to do it ... otherwise u will do damage when missing the perfect point.

 

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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:12 pm 
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Hmm, ok... so will i try it... hmm... maybe my 450 000 Kms box may full to pieces. lol
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:00 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I used to do it all the time.

I just applied pressure to the gearstick till it slipped out of gear. Then I'd just push a bit harder and it would slip straight into the next gear.
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:42 pm 
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only do it if you have to when your clutch is stuffed. I know people who have broken of tooths from their gears. Very expensive.
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:40 pm 
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I did my thesis on gearshifting in motorcycle gearboxes.

When you shift without the clutch you dont have to match the revs with the desired revs of the next gear (you don't see V8 supercar drivers waiting for their revs to fall!) what you have to match is the neutral point between the engine driving the wheels and the wheels driving the engine. Then you can slip the selector from one gear to the next with no load on the gearbox.

HOWEVER in a car with SYNCRO gears the syncros will try and equalise the speed of the seletor to the next gear. However because the gearbox is still connected to the engine the syncro will be trying to change the speed of the engine. This will make it hard to shift gears and wear the poor syncro out like buggery.

ALSO your gearbox is not designed to shift in this way so the shock loading to the dog teeth after the next gear is engaged may be enough to break them and/or the gear teeth aswell. This is a function of the rotating mass of the engine (falcons are bloody heavy!) and the applied power.

YES it is just about the fastest way to shift gears (heard a motorbike change gear?) Usually ignition cut is used since it is possible to change gears faster than the human eye could even detect the movement of the gear lever! (about 1/20th of a sec). It can also bring the power back in smoothly to prevent wheelspin and excess shock loading.

Who would of thought reading and writing would pay off! :D

 

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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:49 pm 
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LOL

So the short anwser to my question is don't even try it, right? And I should just get a racing cluch.

Thanks guys,
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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:16 pm 
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I'm lazy - I do it all the time especially between 3rd and 4th cause it slips in so easy. Prolly shouldn't.

 

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Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:25 pm 
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I did it all the time in my XH I had. Upshifts fell in beatifully and a blip on the throttle to match revs made downshifts as easy.

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:47 pm 
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Yeah, I'm naughty too - but only out of gear....then blip the clutch to engage the next gear - earlier posts were correct that u only do this when load is neutral - my car slipped out of first the other morning leaving the lights (didn't have it all the way in gear ) - the shudder that goes thru the driveline is scary....you are basically doing the same kinda nasty shock if you try and change under load....and think of your poor ol diff, too!

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:03 pm 
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The difference between supercars, motorbikes and STREET cars are the simple fact of a lack of synchro rings. V8 supercar Hollinger gearboxes only have 6 dogs per gear making them shift no matter what but also creates lots of lash. They don't clutch on any upshifts but the also rebuild the box after every meet.

Motorbikes are the same. I shift my motorbike up and down most of the time without the clutch.

Synchro rings are normally softer than the gears and clutchless shifting will f**k the rings.

You can get you T5 Pro Shifted by Liberty in the USA for about $1500 plus rebuild. They can make any of the gears dog, eg 1,2, & 3 but leave 4 & 5 normal. This enables slightly more streetability and strengthen the weak point of the T5 (1st and 2nd). A decent clutch will make dog gears easier to live with, one that allows controlable slip not a brass button ceramic.
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Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:36 pm 
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Meh, i shift without the clutch whenever i'm bored or feeling too lazy to press the dinosaur cable clutch down.

Although I do take care, I match the revs when exiting and entering gears. Just pushing on the gearlever when there is an engine attempting to decelerate the vehicle is foolish, you could break the selector fork and wear out the gears way too quickly.

Pushing the gear lever into gear with mismatched input > output shaft speeds is a much bigger no-no for reasons already mentioned about destroying synchro rings. Match the revs and you'll be suprised how easily even an extremely worn out gearbox just falls into gear.
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Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:04 pm 
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its pointless and stupid, with NO advantages, apart from saving ur clutch :S
it can be done but only when necessary....
You better not be doing it to show ur sick mates how good u are at driving.

Your gearbox....
:P
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