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Diff doing weird things 

 

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 Post subject: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:53 pm 
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Put the car up on stands today to check how bad the diff is...

Open wheeler EF, 3.08 ratio.

If I turn the passenger side wheel, normal speed, the drive shaft turns (car in neutral) but the drivers side wheel stays still, but if I turn the passenger side wheel slowly the drivers wheel turns opposite and the drive shaft stays still :shock: that's both wheels turning and the drive shaft still...

Any diff people know what part would be knackered? I was planning on new gears and the lokka soon, but it would appear that there is something else shot as well, probably now looking like a better option to grab a new diff from the wreckers for the lokka.

I have Friday off work, wonder if I can pull a diff out at U-pull-it and have it in before the dyno day on Saturday? or just hope this one holds together until then.
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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Personally I would be changing it as you don't want it going bang at 200kph+ on the dyno, could get messy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:23 pm 
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pop the carrier out, random uneducated guess it's some funky s**t going on with the spider or side gears.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:24 pm 
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Isn't that what a std open centre does? You turn one wheel and the other goes the other way?

What turns when you turn one wheel is dependant upon how much pre-load there is on everything, if the pinion has too much preload of the other axle too less then you'll get the axle turn, if the pinion has bugger all preload then it'll turn the tailshaft, again you have to over come the resistance of the transmission too...

Every car I've tried, some turn the other wheel, some turn the tail shaft, some turn both... They all seem to vary...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:40 pm 
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timmytimtim wrote:
Isn't that what a std open centre does? You turn one wheel and the other goes the other way?

What turns when you turn one wheel is dependant upon how much pre-load there is on everything, if the pinion has too much preload of the other axle too less then you'll get the axle turn, if the pinion has bugger all preload then it'll turn the tailshaft, again you have to over come the resistance of the transmission too...

Every car I've tried, some turn the other wheel, some turn the tail shaft, some turn both... They all seem to vary...

Cheers,
Tim

I always thought the tailshaft turned, the wheels shouldn't be able to turn independent of the tailshaft? That would introduce the possibility of a car rolling under the right conditions in gear or park.
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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Yeah do turn independent of the tail shaft, but only in the opposite direction... Ie if you park on an awesome steep hill with two wheels in real slipery mud I'll guarantee with the tail shaft locked (Park or in gear) then it'll roll down the hill... As the wheel with traction turn backwards (rolling down the hill) the other wheel will spin forward but the must be very low traction to allow it to spin...

A lego diff might help explain it better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0kz96c6 ... re=related

Bust because you have three gear through 180 degrees angle change from the first to the last (axle gear turns spider gear turns other axles gear) then it causes the opposite axle to spin what appears backward, if you "unfolded" the diff and made the three inner gears inline then you'd find they spin the same way...

Hard to explain without one in your hands... But this is normal... Its characteristic of any diff with a hemisphere... So thats open centre and LSD... Your Lokka wont do it because you remove the hemisphere... And I'm unsure whether a truetrak would do it or not... :?

Hope that sort of makes sense?

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:39 pm 
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um thats normal for a legger. spin the tail shaft and see if the wheels or wheel turns

 

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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:12 pm 
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Not trying to be a smartass wildeb but if the tailshaft didnt turn the wheel/s he wouldnt be going anywhere would he?
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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:49 pm 
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i6_demon wrote:
Not trying to be a smartass wildeb but if the tailshaft didnt turn the wheel/s he wouldnt be going anywhere would he?


it's just spinning the spider gears. the tail shaft drives the wheels. not the over way round

 

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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:21 pm 
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SS - spin one wheel and other should spin in opposite direction if at all.

LSD - spin one wheel and other should spin in same direction.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:05 pm 
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It's not the wheels turning I was worried about, it was the ability to turn the wheels without the tailshaft spinning. Imagine jacking the car up putting it in Park or in gear for a manual and being able to turn the back wheels, I don't recall any of my cars doing that, not that I ever specifically checked though. But I have changed wheels with the car up and in gear, no handbrake?
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 Post subject: Re: Diff doing weird things
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:30 pm 
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skidder wrote:
SS - spin one wheel and other should spin in opposite direction if at all.

LSD - spin one wheel and other should spin in same direction.


And LSD still has a the same spider arrangement as a SS but with a clutch between each axle gear and the the carrier IIRC... Hence when one wheel turns the other will turn the opposite way still...

dsyfer wrote:
It's not the wheels turning I was worried about, it was the ability to turn the wheels without the tailshaft spinning. Imagine jacking the car up putting it in Park or in gear for a manual and being able to turn the back wheels, I don't recall any of my cars doing that, not that I ever specifically checked though. But I have changed wheels with the car up and in gear, no handbrake?


Any car with an open centre or LSD will behave as detailed here... if the tail shaft is locked, the other will always be able to turn in the opposite direction... It can't roll away if both wheels have traction... It one has zero traction (theoretically impossible) then yes it could roll but the wheel with zero traction would spin the other way still...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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