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EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:57 am 
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hi guys
another discovery.....my EF has had heavy steering ever since I installed an EL rack. I tried an EL power steering pump but this made no difference. I finally suspect that there is a difference in the length of the arm on the steering knuckle which is one of the refinements Ford made to the EL to eliminate the understeer of the EF. Could some one please measure the length of the arm on the steering knuckle on an EL I6 measured from centre of lower ball joint to centre of the hole where tie rod end bolts in? My EF is 130mm. I suspect an EL will be longer by perhaps 10mm.....
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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:56 pm 
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EB/ED is around 130mm, so is the EF/EL one I have too.
You will find EF/EL knuckles with 94DA numbers, and 95DA numbers too.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:36 am 
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around 130mm or exactly 130mm? :D
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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:23 pm 
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around - can't get exact with ball joints in place.

I doubt that change would make any difference.

Are you sure your wheel alignment toe in settings are correct ??? - they make a BIG difference on steering.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:07 pm 
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even 5mm would make a difference...anyone give me an exact measurement would be appreciated?
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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:18 pm 
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So explain how that would be ???

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Man,

Gonna make f**k all difference... Esp considering you can fix this toe in for the same feel... Once the toe in is right all you'll lose is a tiny bit of steering lock...

Just crunching some numbers because your maths has me intrigued... For example...

If from ball joint to tie rod end is 130mm and the rack is able to travel 100mm in and out (not sure haven't measured it) then the hub face will have a maximum change of angle of 44.07 degrees

If the distance is 135mm and the rack travels the same then maximum change in angle is 42.44degrees

And same with 125mm is 45.84 degrees...

Three fifths of f**k all...

Then if you keep the wheels straight... Say from rack end ball joint to tie rod end ball joint is 300mm? If at 130mm the rack end subtends from the knuckle at 90 degrees and then moves respectively for 135mm that will change the angle on the rack end by .9549 degrees... In turn that will bring the back of the hub in by .042mm without moving the wheel... That is 1 minute 3.66 seconds change...

if the tie rod end has a 1.5mm pitch thread (be M12-ish from memory)? then if 1.5mm is a 360 degree turn of the tie rod... .042mm could be achieved by .028ths of a turn or 10 degrees of a turn and you'll be back to knowing it never existed...

Three fifths of f**k all...

Not seeing why you think a 5mm change makes so much difference? Are you a suspension engineer or master in geometrics? Be happy to hear what I'm missing here in my maths if you're so sure? This A4 page of trigonometry and circle geometry I'm now blankly looking at shows such small changes in everything...

Only one thing I cannot accommodate for here is If the wheels are straight, I don't know the factory angle between the hub plane and the tie rod end... As I've said I assume it subtended at 90 degrees, but that wouldn't be correct in reality and for every bit that it isn't 90 degrees it will make ever so minor change to the numbers above... Because everything on a car is a "radius" circle geometry halves that change because pi by diameter gives circumference and then taking the ratio for the angle or circumference change is halved because the whole circle is the denominator... Hopefully that makes sense?

If you are only worried about mecahnical advantage and effort about a fulcrum then if you assume 130mm is std effort to be applied then 135mm is 3.85% less effort to be applied to the knuckle and 125mm is 3.85% more effort to be applied...

Again three fifths of f**k all...

As always quite happy for someone to prove me wrong... I'm not suspension engineer, half an electrical supply engineer, but I'm handy with geometry and trig (finally putting my school maths to use... But I've gone through this maths a few times now and noticed one mistake which halved all the changes and fixed that... I'm just not seeing your theory...

Are you sure the rack isn't stuffed? Maybe the directional valve in it is playing up?

Cheers,
Tim

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:44 am 
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just looking for an accurate measurement pls...in one sentence is enough
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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:22 pm 
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Have fun finding it - that is all . . . .

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:22 pm 
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an EL came into the workshop today. 130mm....hmm..ok, that rules that out...cheers
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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Location: South Coast
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Keep guessing . . . . .

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EF and EL Steering Columns - Same or different
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:35 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Ride: EF Futura wagon, BF MKIII Wagon

Location: Brisbane
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curious to know exactly what refinements the EL steering/suspension received. i know rack, intermediate shaft, lower steering column shaft are different to the EF. must be some other minor changes
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