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ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE 

 

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 Post subject: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:49 pm 
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Ride: EF Futura wagon, BF MKIII Wagon

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

bought this very tidy EF Futura Wagon unregistered at auction cheap

As it was unregistered I didn't really get to feel what it drove like as is

As the front end looked sagged, ball joints and upper control arm bushes clearly had movement in them I rebuilt the front end (for the Safety certificate) and performed/used the following:

urethane upper control arm bushes (Pedders)
urethane radius rod bushes (Superpro)
Sway bar bushes (chassis only)
new front springs (Pedders Heavy duty Standard height)(These are 1 mm diameter thicker than the originals)(I just wanted to restore the height, not change the ride)
Monroe GT Gas shocks
2 x lower ball joints
remanufactured steering rack
new tie rod ends
new wheel bearings and seals
new tyres
alignment

It passed the Safety certificate and it drives reasonably well, and it steers straight on the highway (although there is a tendency for the steering not to centre).

It has a tendency to lurch about a bit on undulated roads at low speeds 40-60km/h.

It also still feels quite loose in the front end when navigating manholes etc.distinct clunks and general resonance coming from steering suspension.

I have checked the steering shaft for slop, none there at all.

I really can't understand why the ride is so rough and a little unpredictable at times. It will skip out sometimes and the driver needs to anticipate this by watching the road carefully to be ready to compensate. Its actually quite tiring to drive at times.

Do you think the urethane bushes could be doing this?

I am thinking of putting the old springs back in to eliminate that possibility.

I have a tendency to compare the ride with my former EL sedan which was much more plush, pliable and predictable.

I know the EL had refinements that made for a better ride but is the difference really that much? Anyone driven both and can comment?
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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:55 pm 
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i think u should be looking at the back not the front.

mines been getting worse and worse but its nothing to do with the front end my rear bushes are nackered

 

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94 White ED Wagon
eaton M112 supercharger, lowered a tad, extractors, 2.5" exhaust, T5 , custom SureCam supercharger cam, 3.45 lokka, 2 piece tailshaft, poyair bags in the back, TSS front Skirt, Sprint skirts, XR wagon spoiler.
soon to get: AU diff, upc 330mm brakes, Vapor LPG injection.

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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 3:57 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Ride: EF Futura wagon, BF MKIII Wagon

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

springs were reset with new bushes and new shocks...that's not an issue
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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:12 pm 
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Ride: 96 XH/97 EL

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Check the bushes/ball joints with a pinchbar or similar, check tighten all the bolts, etc.
What are the tyre pressures ??
What were the final front end align figures ??

And a biggie, check the steering intermediate shaft uni's for wear/play.

The springs sound a bit stiff being 1mm thicker than std, but are most likely not contributing to the problem.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:17 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: BF XR6,

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Isnt the rear leaf sprung? Surely that makes it different to a coil sprung sedan

 

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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:52 am 
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Ride: EF Wagon

Location: Canberra - not as bad as you think
ACT, Australia

What tyre pressures are you running front and rear?

In my EF Wagon I'm running 33 front and rear and that seems to work well, mines got LPG tanks in the back, so that adds some weight over the rear end.

 

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96 EF Wagon, PRINS VSI LPG, Wade 1636, 4480's, Redback zorst, Metalcat, 3 angle valve job, .5mm overbore, hypertec pistons, shaved head (because the head was banana shaped when I brought it), Tickford 16" alloys, KYB shocks, 30mm sway bar, 1 1/2 degrees negative camber, tow bar, roof racks.

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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:09 am 
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Ride: EF Futura wagon, BF MKIII Wagon

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

EF Wagon wrote:
What tyre pressures are you running front and rear?

In my EF Wagon I'm running 33 front and rear and that seems to work well, mines got LPG tanks in the back, so that adds some weight over the rear end.


Ditto with the LPG...ditto with the tyre pressures...have tried numerous combinations....but its the front thats the issue anyway...

made some progress....the new steering rack needed a slight adjustment and part of the knocking noise has gone now and the feedback I was getting through the steering wheel over rough roads is much reduced....however can still hear and feel excessive noise/movement in the fr shock towers (i think).....could be the rubber bush in the lower control arm where the shock mounts is too soft and getting harshness from there...hmmm....one step at a time...

just discovered the 'remanufactured' steering rack has an oil leak from the very top of the pinion shaft where the intermediate shaft clamps on...
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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Ride: EF XR6 Manual

Location: Melbourne
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I havent read all of your comments I only read the first few lines where u listed parts fitted to the front, if the car has urothane bushes fitted to the lower control arm it will increase Nvh in the car ( noise vibration and harshness) urothane is a good product in certain applications but in others it makes cars worse to drive. The upper control arm an radius bushes will be fine left as they are but I'd suggest changing the lowers back to a heavy duty rubber. The next step is what spring and shock setup ur running? But I'd say most of ur issue is coming from those bushes transferring NVH
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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Ride: 96 XH/97 EL

Location: South Coast
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Denislovesit wrote:
the new steering rack needed a slight adjustment and part of the knocking noise has gone now
What was adjusted ??

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:39 pm 
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Ride: EF Futura wagon, BF MKIII Wagon

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

urethane only on the upper control arms and radius rods. lower is all rubber

I adjusted the spring tension on the rack...1/8th of a turn is all it required
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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Ride: 96 XH/97 EL

Location: South Coast
NSW, Australia

Just be careful with the rack pad adjustment - it's normally 10-12Nm and back off 30 degrees from memory.
You can do it by hand - keep doing up by small increments and cycle the rack lock to lock, on the first sign of binding at straight ahead, back off a tad and do up the lock ring.

You might need to do this without the intermediate shaft connected, might not be sensitive enough if you're rotating the steering wheel. I do this on the rack out of the car.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Ride: Kia Rio - 1.4L Auto

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VIC, Australia

Maybe you need to do the lower inner bushes too.

They are a common failure point with age.

Its hard to tell the rubber ones hae failed just by jacking the car and testing with a pry bar. But out on the road, driving forces will show if they are rooted.

My EL which had the Tickford urethane front lowers got deadly at one stage. Was dodging all over the road. Got very scary. Specially when I went though a dip and at the base when the weight was off the front end, the steering wheel turned 90 deg by itself in my hands, but the wheels kept straight. Almost shat my pants. When I got home, I jacked it up and found around 10mm in and out movement in the lower inner bushes.

Does it have the original 15" factory wheels?
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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Ride: EF Futura wagon, BF MKIII Wagon

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

all original
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 Post subject: Re: ef wAGON ROUGH RIDE
Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:01 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I personally think it's the GT Shockies - when I first got my ED Futura I had "Low" King springs and Monroe GT Premiums fitted - the result was teeth breaking ride and the tyres felt like they were made of hard plastic...

The good thing about those shockies were that 60kph FELT like 150 - great braindead hoon shocks IMO.

 

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