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How much does tyre sidewall size effect handling 

 

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 Post subject: How much does tyre sidewall size effect handling
Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:31 pm 
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Does anyone know how much the size of the sidewall effects the handling of a vehicle?
Say for example you have a 16", 17" and 18" wheels all of the same width (lets use 8" for this example) and you have the exact same model tyres on each wheel and the tyres are all the same width (lets use 235). Would there be much or any difference?
I can see how a huge sidewall would negativily effect the handling, but in this scenario were talking about 1" difference in the sidewall. Would it have much effect?

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:28 pm 
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I twolud probably depend on the tire how much the effecet would be, but there is always atleast a slight difference.

For example, on my drift car, i used to have 16's, then upgraded to 17's. Each set of wheels had the same brand/model of tire, and the difference in handling was about at a guess 20% in favour of the 17" tire.

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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:38 pm 
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I found a difference changing to the federal rs 595's form the ss 595's. the side wall height is the same but the rs's have a thicker side wall which made for alot less trye roll then the ss's and alot more responsive cornering. Noi ncrease in understeer either, which i think is due to the trye compound not the wall thickness

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:38 am 
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depends on the car

f1 cars run like a 13" rim with a huge sidewall

V8 supercars run a 17" rim i think


dotn forget the sidewall is part of the cars suspension

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:47 am 
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PIMP_LTD wrote:
I twolud probably depend on the tire how much the effecet would be, but there is always atleast a slight difference.

For example, on my drift car, i used to have 16's, then upgraded to 17's. Each set of wheels had the same brand/model of tire, and the difference in handling was about at a guess 20% in favour of the 17" tire.

:)

Andrew.


yeah for drifting you want minimal sidewall roll. I'm not exactly sure of the measurments but i know my mates car runs i think its around 9 or 9.5 in rim with 235's to stretch it out, looks horn as

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:53 pm 
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I went from good quality Pirelli 205/65s on my 15s to 17s with Bridgestone and Dunlops.... the difference is phenomenal.

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:18 pm 
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As has been mentioned there are heaps of factors. For example:

- The best grip for road driving won't come from as low a profile as for a racetrack, because of road variations needing to be absorbed.

- The lower the profile the faster the steering and other lateral loading response.

- The lower the profile the higher the ultimate grip, and the sharper the grip curve. A sharper curve means grip rapidly increases with increasing load, up to the limit of adhesion, and then gives no more grip. A higher profile can be more forgiving of bad drivers, in so much as it will start to slide but still give predictable grip, but then again being sloppy could get bad drivers into trouble in the first place.

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:27 pm 
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Disco Frank wrote:
f1 cars run like a 13" rim with a huge sidewall

dotn forget the sidewall is part of the cars suspension

Yeah, the sidewall is to absorb the ripple strips, plus the cars are so light and there is no body roll so the sidewalls probably don't flex much around corners.

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:38 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
- The lower the profile the higher the ultimate grip, . . .

Thats only true if you have decent suspension geometry. Some older cars would actually have less grip with low profile tyres because as the car body rolls around a corner the tyre is no longer flat enough on the road. The low profile tyre will actually give good initial turn in generating more body roll . . . and then things won't be so good after that.

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:34 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Disco Frank wrote:
f1 cars run like a 13" rim with a huge sidewall

dotn forget the sidewall is part of the cars suspension

Yeah, the sidewall is to absorb the ripple strips, plus the cars are so light and there is no body roll so the sidewalls probably don't flex much around corners.


i meant in general road cars the sidewall is used to help with the suspension

F1 cars have MASSIVE amounts of pure mechanical grip due to the downforce of the wings

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:28 pm 
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trye size dose not matter it is how you set up your car
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:55 pm 
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So you're saying a 205/65/15 will be a better tyre/wheel combo than a 235/45/17?
Uh uh.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:53 am 
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rule of thumb - smaller sidewall = harsher ride! i got 18's with 235/40/18's and they are hard, as i recently reverted to stocky 15's for a week smooth ride but i missed that race car feel!

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:53 am 
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Disco Frank wrote:
relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Disco Frank wrote:
f1 cars run like a 13" rim with a huge sidewall

dotn forget the sidewall is part of the cars suspension

Yeah, the sidewall is to absorb the ripple strips, plus the cars are so light and there is no body roll so the sidewalls probably don't flex much around corners.


i meant in general road cars the sidewall is used to help with the suspension

Yep. Newer cars designed for low profile tyres have more attention placed on the bushes and suspension design to accommodate where possible for the lack of tyre absorption, plus they hope we drive on better roads.

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F1 cars have MASSIVE amounts of pure mechanical grip due to the downforce of the wings

Yep, and that's why they need the sidewalls to absorb bumps under high vertical loads. And since the downforce doesn't increase the lateral loads, the sidewalls still get a relatively easy life around corners, during swerves, etc.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:53 pm 
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