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information on how the btr's are controlled 

 

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 Post subject: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:48 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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basically im in the process of designing a separate system to control the shifts. (i got the idea off of a couple of year old thread by stock standard).
the reason behind this is as you know manualised valve bodys are not available (to my knowledge anyway) and im sick of kickback
plus once finished im going to incorporate a sequential shift availabilty with hopefully flappy paddles (thanks data_mine for that idea)

anyway basically i know how autos work but i was wondering wether anyone could give me an insight as to how the btr's are controlled before i go pulling things apart.

even if somone knows what signal is sent to the valve bodys(eg what voltage) save me lots of time with a multimeter

thanks :twisted:
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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:31 pm 
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All the solenoids, except S5 are simple on/off 12V / 0V deals. S5 uses a variable voltage as it's the line pressure regulator.

PM me your email addy, I'll send you the BTR tech doco. (it's about 6MB, so ensure you can receive that big a file).

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:41 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Could you start with a control module out of a V8 E-series and work form there? :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:03 am 
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easy as if you only want hard manual shifts, soft normal auto shifts is another story

my wolf v500 controls my auto completely, shift points , hardness , lockup etc

s1=gear change
s2=gear change
s3= dont use
s4=dont use
s5=dont use
s6= line pressure, make high
s7= t/convert lockup, make switchable for fourth only


s1/s2 combination = on on
on off
off on
off off

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:11 am 
Tyre Shredder
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i was hoping they were simple 0 to 12v makes my job a lot easier
i Will be incorporating variable shift hardnes by adjusting the voltage to the s5

ill keep you posted on progress but i expect its not going to be too fast
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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:05 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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not being a C***, but try searching using google and site:www.fordmods.com.....only cause I remember reading some good threads on here about how the btr is controlled/attempts at manualising.

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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I have this:

Solenoid - S! and S2

these are normally open solenoids these two solenoids control which gear the transmission is in


Solenoid - S3 and S4

these are normally open solenoids , these two solenoids are used to control the speed and quality of the shift, they are only turned on before the shift starts and then off , with the time on varying in relation to vehicle demands and circumstances

NOTE- that in some situations with no laod these solenoids will sometimes not be activiated ( eg vehicle jacked up and car driven on jac stands with no wheel loads


Solenoid - S5

This solenoid operates on a duty cycle which controls S5 oil pressure which in turn has a affect on the shift quality. It operates in the same manner as a ISC operates to control the air bypass of the throttle body.


Solenoid - S6

This solenoid is normally closed it is switched on ( 12 volts ) to dump pressure on the line pressure boost valve which , in turn gives low line pressure for light throttle applications.This vavle is normally off ( 0 volts ) for heavy throttle applications


Solenoid - S7

This solenoid is normally closed and is switched on ( 12 Volts ) to apply the torque convertor at speeds above 80kph dependent on the throttle position.The exact speed of the when the TCC comes on is dependant also on what series ECU is installed in the car

As previously posted, S1 and S2 control the gear selection. I was happy to read that the position of these in each gear was the same as what I had worked out, being:

1st gear: Both S1 and S2 on
2nd gear: S2 on
3rd gear: both off
4th gear: S1 on

S3 controls the application of the clutch C1, and S4 controls the front band. Both of these need to be applied in a controlled way for smooth shifting, which is done by S5 controlling the pressure delivered to them while their solenoids are open. The more current delivered to S5, the lower the line pressure. Im a little confused as to how these are used at the moment. In the manual it says the front band needs to be applied while in 2nd and 4th gears, and the C1 clutch applied in 3rd and 4th. But the table above indicates that S3 solenoid (controls C1) is on while shifting into 3rd and the S4 (controlling the forward band) is on during all shifts. Logging what the factory TCU does will tell us how to control it, but I suspect that the solenoids are used for the application of the clutch/band, which then may or may not be held in place by hydraulic pressure depending on the gear.

The remaining clutches C2, C3 and C4 and the rear band (none of which we need to control) receive line pressure regulated by the primary regulator valve. Under light throttle, the line pressure is reduced by switching on S6. Under heavy throttle, S6 is switched off, increasing the line pressure so the gearbox handles the extra torque

Finally, S7 locks the torque converter. On pre-ef 4 speeds, the lockup occurs when in 4th under "suitable driving conditions", which I read as cruise or light throttle. On EF's and onwards and when the gearbox is in economy, lockup occurs late in the 3rd gear and partially disengages for the 3rd to 4th shift. In all gearboxes, the S5 solenoid is again used to provide smooth engagement.

Oh, and reverse requires both S1 and S2 to be on. C3 is locked by hydraulic pressure to reverse the rotation of the output shaft.

I believe the ECU also expects a signal from the TCU. Looks like this signal is 12V to send ECU into LHM, 0V to report a thermistor error, or a 10,20,30 or 40Hz wave indicating the temperature of the gearbox which is used to adjust idle speed


Hope it helps

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:42 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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hey thanks for all the great info
skidder i took your advice and did the search using google i found some very good threads

at the moment im considering post poning the project till next year as ill be able to use it as my project at uni (should get me some good marks)

so for the moment progress will be slow

out of curiosity before i do go ahead has anyone done this or attempted it
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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:53 pm 
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djcustomcomputing wrote:
out of curiosity before i do go ahead has anyone done this or attempted it


I believe one of the fellas on here made a sequential controller for a EA/EB it would've had to control the auto directly, as the ECU's don't have an sequential control function.

I'm vauge on the details, names. Sorry.

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:57 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Speak to DTM automatics in melb and they may be able to help you

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:49 pm 
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[quote="djcustomcomputing"]i was hoping they were simple 0 to 12v makes my job a lot easier
i Will be incorporating variable shift hardnes by adjusting the voltage to the s5

The ECU varies the current to S5 not the voltage,increasing current decreases output pressure, decreasing current increases output pressure.
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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:23 am 
Getting Side Ways
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S5, jeez, when I wired up my EL ecu inplace of TCM, my S5 wire had shorted out somewhere along the way, which meant reduced current. Rock hard shifts(accidental shift kit) for weeks till I found out what it was :roll:

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:50 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I'll be interested cause my bro-in-laws XR8 ex HWP chaser shifts at 5,800 my Lane shifts at 4,800, his is stock except for option 20 cop stuff - i wanna shift at 5,800 too! :twisted:

 

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 Post subject: Re: information on how the btr's are controlled
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:46 pm 
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fairlane6970 wrote:
I'll be interested cause my bro-in-laws XR8 ex HWP chaser shifts at 5,800 my Lane shifts at 4,800, his is stock except for option 20 cop stuff - i wanna shift at 5,800 too! :twisted:


That's got nothing to do with any 'cop' options. Difference between an XR8 ECU and a Fairlane/Fairmont tune ECU.

 

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