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Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors? 

 

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 Post subject: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:20 pm 
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I have just recently purchased a set of wheels which require 30mm hub adaptors to get pre-au offset. I have heard many storys with people going both ways about them,some saying they are highly dangerous, and others saying you will never have a problem if the right nuts and torque settings are used.

I will be towing about 600-700kg each month.
Has anyone ever towed with hub adaptors and have they ever had problems with them caused by towing?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:13 pm 
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i havent have problems towing cars on car trailers around
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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:28 pm 
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To the best of my knowledge they are actually illegal in NSW as it they move the load centre away from the bearings, thus putting more load onto the bearings and wearing them out, basically from what I read, the government is affraid they'll wear right out to the point where the wheel will fall off...

And from and engineering perspective, yeah its not good at all for the wheel bearings... That, for the same reason is why (again in NSW) you are allowed to only go 1" oversize in terms of width, as again offset can then move out from the hub causing extra wear...

Now if you fitted AU stub axles, then it'd be fine as they were designed for larger offset wheels... EA to AU1 stub axles (although they probably would handle it) weren't engineered originally for it and as such, the reason why they are banned in NSW...

In saying that, relating to towing...

The hub adaptors only go on the fronts to clear the stub axle struts... not on the back yeah?

Towing a trailer, assuming a 6x4 box trailer (only something small) for 600 to 700kg... The down weight in the trailer is really 90% of it on the trailer axle, thus no load really on the back of the car... The little bit that is put on the car (in terms of down load) is really only added to the back axle, if anything, as it pivots about the back axle it might actually take a kg off the front axles (where the hub adaptors are)... So in terms of down load you'd be fine...

Now in terms of horizontal loads (pulling and braking loads)... Acceleration is all done through the back wheels, where there are no hub adaptors... So all the required load is on the 10 wheel nuts and studs on the back wheels... So acceleration is perfectly fine...

Braking... Brake Bias is given to the front to help maintain control under heavy braking... This puts load on your hub adaptors... Once again the factory studs are designed to take this, only question then is, are the studs on the hub adaptors designed to take braking load force? (I've never seen hub adaptors in real life, I have no idea?) Surely something like that would have ratings on the back of the packet or something??? None the less, the studs would have an engineering load torsion rating... But if its only 600 or 700kgs (a box trailer is 400 empty i spose?) then I reckon it'd be ok...

Only drama you might have is, when braking the front of the car digs down, this is due to brake bias on the fronts... This down ward force adds to the wheels... So if you jump on anchors, due to the momentum of the car (when momentum is mass time velocity) you add a proportional ratio down to the wheel bearings... Say your trailer at 700 kg is have the weight of the car... So when you have just your car you ratio is 1, with the trailer is 1.5 times... so your adding 1.5 times the standard down weight onto the hub adaptor studs and wheel bearings...

Again, this could be unsafe (i'm not an engineer so i don't know exactly), or it could be perfectly fine...

All in all if you brake nice and easy... Your doing anymore in justice than what is already being done by the hub adaptors, so i'd say its fine... Its only how it'd pan out in an emergency (ie lock up)... but if youu hit something front on, its not the wheel bearings you'd be worried about then...

Hope I shone some light on it for you...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:52 pm 
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hub adapters are used front and rear to use the au offset wheels.
i cant see there being more load on the bearings, as the actual rim in e series offset is still the same width and offset as the au series wheels with adapters so its the same.
my bearings are as new still too after 2 years.
the studs used in adapters are the same studs u can buy aftermarket to replace any damaged or broken studs,from most auto parts outlets.
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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:00 pm 
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Absolute crock of s**t about changing the load of the bearings.
Whats the difference between a rim with a 30mm spacer and a rim with the offset built in?

They'll be fine.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:31 pm 
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Hub adaptors are dodgy. The reason they are illegal is nothing to do with the fact of moving the offset out. As krisisdog said quite rightly its exactly the same as using the correct offset wheels.
They are illegal because with adaptors you are putting all the wheels load on the studs and not the hub. The studs are only there to keep the wheel on not to take load. That is the hubs job.
With an adaptor the wheel doesnt locate on the cast hub itself , its on the machined spacer which is only bolted to the exitisting stub. Therefore you are adding an extra shear point into the equation.
All in all hub adaptors are dodgy. Some are better designed and less dangerous then others but they are all crap.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:52 pm 
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I was reading the rta guide thing and thats sort of what they were going on about in there... In regards to load on wheel bearings anyway...

But yeah, that makes sense too evil...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:31 pm 
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the wheel's centre bore purpose is to help "centre" the wheel properly when doing up the studs, NOT to take the load off the studs. If the centre bore was supposed to take the load off the studs, then it would have to be a tight fit and the wheel hammered on.

before someone disagrees on that point, please research first.

the only problem i see with hub adaptors is the questionable quality....... you dont really know what your buying, and also wheel balance probs.
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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:25 pm 
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In amongst all this hysteria about hub adaptors being dodgy, s**t, and if you use them the sky will fall in, can I please point out that they are CAMS approved. s**t they must be dangerous :roll:


BTW, I used a set on my EB and towed anything and everything an never had a drama.

 

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Last edited by The Dog on Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:28 pm 
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as mentioned, you buy quality ones and there shouldnt be problems. Thing is, how do you tell the difference?
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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:38 pm 
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i think if your confident enough to drive on them, doing what you do when you drive normally..
there will be no issues towing a trailer with them on..
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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:11 am 
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Yeah that is very true FordFairmont, therefore I will ask "The Dog" where did you buy your hub adaptors from? seeing as they must be quality ones.

..also fordfairmont, are your apaches pre-au offset?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:00 am 
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Mine came from ultimate Performance Warehouse and were turned down from a chunk of billet alloy. You'll find them on ebay.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:21 am 
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nardz27 wrote:

..also fordfairmont, are your apaches pre-au offset?


yep, they are actually +10mm offset which is even better as it keeps the tyres away from the guards.

my advice is to just get wheels that bolt straight on, less hassles in my opinion and easier to balance up.

Heres a thread with a few designs available
exterior-modifications-f15/show-us-your-e-series-offset-wheels-t77075.html
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 Post subject: Re: Is It safe to tow a trailer with hub adaptors?
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:47 am 
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ohhhhhh so many assumptions in this thread i don't know where to start.

Hub adapters are NO different to using a set of wheels that are of the correct offset in the first place, they are only illegal due to incorrectly used / s**t made sets causing some incidents, if the hub adapter is made of the proper material in the proper way, with the correct studs+center spigot/hole+nuts they will not fail, and if you decide you want to space your wheels out wider than factory, yes you are changing the forces seen by the bearings and suspension and may have troubles (depending on maintenance and use of the vehicle)

the center spigot is there to keep the wheel centered yes, BY TAKING SOME OF THE WEIGHT OF THE VEHICLE and stopping the wheel deflecting the studs more than a fraction of a millimeter,
Without it the studs will flex as far as they can then relax, then flex the other way as far as they can over and over again as the wheel rotates, and due to the studs having a thread cut into them (This is assuming someone made theim without the proper knowledge, PROPER threads are formed by pressing, not cutting as its stronger and less susceptible to fatigue) there will be a nice sharp corner at the thinnest part of the thread for a crack to propagate from (add in some overtightened nuts) eventually one of the studs will fail increasing the load the others have to take, increasing their deflection and speeding up the process until f**k BANG! the remaining studs let go all at the same time and someones car becomes a tricycle.

Rarely in a properly designed device will you see threaded rods taking a load in shear (sideways) they are usually only used in tension/compression. there will always be some other method of keeping the parts parts from moving with the threaded thing only being there to stop the parts coming apart. the exceptions are when you have a sufficient number of fasteners (bolts) that they do not experience a load great enough to cause fatigue/plastic deformation or when it doesn't matter if they fail - in the case of hubs on a car they are under constantly changing (dynamic) loads so are therefore very likely to become fatigued, hence the centre spigot

So if your adapters are made correctly (just because you got them from a Tyre shop doesn't explicitly mean they are) and if they are correct for your vehicle (spigot diameter and load rating) you should be fine towing a trailer.

 

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