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Jim Mock Suspension VS King Springs 

 

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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:48 pm 
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King springs can be had for ~$210 for a full set of 4

 

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 Post subject: Jim Mock Suspension VS King Springs
Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:55 pm 
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I've just spoken to Jim Mock motorsport and they have geven me a price of around $1200 for a progressive rate suspension package including camber/caster kit and full wheel alignment and new shocks (not adjustable though)

What prices are king springs? I think I've seen prices in the $1000 area including new shocks. So, if this is ture, why the hell would anyone get POS single rate king springs instead of a far superior progressive rate setup with camber/caster adjustment?
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:55 pm 
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Progressive rate are only superior when a s**t load of R&D have gone into them. You dont just pluck a figure and wind the springs that way and go yep that will do.

Until someone spends proper street and track time developing progressive springs for the falcon, then 'single rate' springs will be far superior for your street needs.

Hows about you do a little more research on suspension before you throw those comments about.

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:32 am 
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South wrote:
Progressive rate are only superior when a s**t load of R&D have gone into them. You dont just pluck a figure and wind the springs that way and go yep that will do.

Until someone spends proper street and track time developing progressive springs for the falcon, then 'single rate' springs will be far superior for your street needs.

Hows about you do a little more research on suspension before you throw those comments about.


Ill second that. About the only progressive setup for the falcons worth having is the std XR springs due to the amount of R&D ford have put in to it. All aftermarket stuff is inferior. Stick with single rates as its easier to tune your shocks to it too.

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:07 am 
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AFAIK King springs do make progressive rate springs for the EF/EL's....however only the rear springs are progressive rate (as std by the sounds of what Jaysen said). I'd say JMM's kit would be only progressive at the rear also?

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:05 am 
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South wrote:
Progressive rate are only superior when a s**t load of R&D have gone into them. You dont just pluck a figure and wind the springs that way and go yep that will do.

Until someone spends proper street and track time developing progressive springs for the falcon, then 'single rate' springs will be far superior for your street needs.

Hows about you do a little more research on suspension before you throw those comments about.


LOL. What a tosser. Go through and read my posts regarding suspension setups. Exactally the same can be said for single rate springs. You don't just whack 400lbs springs in your car 50mm lower than original and say "Yep. That'll do"

Also, for your information, JMM's progressive rate setup has been developed over years since they've been offering it. Ring them up yourself.

The fact of teh matter is that there are suspension experts out there who do progressive rate for a living and don't need to throw a car on the track to get progressive rates right, unless you're Peter Brock.

It's very easy to wind a spring 150lbs to 400lbs and get good results instead of putting single rate 300lbs springs in it. I think Mrs Palmer is calling. Sorry for dissing the cheapest 'bolt on' performance DOWNGRADE on the market.
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:06 pm 
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your a tool mate! if king springs dont know what the f**k they are doing then why the hell do the V8 supercar boys use em. The fact still remains that most people do not the know how on how to match shock rates to progressive rate springs ( I know jack s**t too ). However, progressive rate springs were designed for the family man who wants to lower his car and still have some form of ride quality whilst he puts a caravan on the back, hence the reason why Kings are only progressive rate on the rear. If you really know so much then why dont you go work for FTR in thier suspension department and tell them all to use progressive rate springs :wink:

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:38 pm 
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Jaysen wrote:
your a tool mate! if king springs dont know what the f**k they are doing then why the hell do the V8 supercar boys use em. The fact still remains that most people do not the know how on how to match shock rates to progressive rate springs ( I know jack s**t too ). However, progressive rate springs were designed for the family man who wants to lower his car and still have some form of ride quality whilst he puts a caravan on the back, hence the reason why Kings are only progressive rate on the rear. If you really know so much then why dont you go work for FTR in thier suspension department and tell them all to use progressive rate springs :wink:


Actually, teh V8's use a progressive rate spring on some tracks and some conditions... not all, but they certainly do use them. Currently they're using about 600lbs to 1200lbs. Give me hard evidence, preferably in the form of a spring out of a V8 supercar, that they use single rate and not progressive rate.

One of my mates is a close personal friend with Murray Carter, my mate's father is an ex racing driver and he has raced a bit aswell. So, are you, with you're non-existant knowledge, trying to tell me that Murray, my mate, my mate's father and I don't know what we're talking about?

Progressive rate is the ultimate in performance. As you said, you know jack s**t, to shut your pie hole.
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:18 pm 
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unclewoja wrote:
Jaysen wrote:
One of my mates is a close personal friend with Murray Carter, my mate's father is an ex racing driver and he has raced a bit aswell. So, are you, with you're non-existant knowledge, trying to tell me that Murray, my mate, my mate's father and I don't know what we're talking about?

Progressive rate is the ultimate in performance. As you said, you know jack s**t, to shut your pie hole.


Since you do know what your talking about, can you tell me how much progression is designed into the kinematics of the standard suspension? Also what motion ratio is used at the front. Would I be right in assuming that since it is a live axle that the rear has no progression and no motion ratio? You would need to know this before getting custom wound springs.
I'm not dissing you I really want to know.

Been thinking of working out the rate of my whiteline springs through measurement.

IMO I think it it just as possible to have a poor progressive spring as a poor single rate spring. I suppose the best way is to try both and see what works for you on your particular car. i think the tradoff would be it will be harder to get the damping right on a progressive spring but a progressive spring will be able to handle a wider range of smooth or bumpy roads/tracks.

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:55 pm 
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What works for one may not work for the other.

Look personally ive used King springs on all my cars and have had not trouble with them at all. Most people say kings are s**t or this is s**t usually aint running the right shocks to match like how many people just go and throw lowered springs in a car and run the standard shocks and whing about it. I run king lows and stock shocks and it handels like s**t but i don't say king springs are s**t cause i know my shocks a s**t.

Now just get off each others back ok some people like there ride a little harder then others each to there own if you like something and think its what you want then keep it and stop having to run how you want things because someone says its a s**t brand why don't the lot of you grow up.
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:11 am 
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unclewoja wrote:
As you said, you know jack s**t, to shut your pie hole.



Really, what's the point in getting agressive over some healthy discussion in a forum? After all, we're all just trying to learn a thing or two here..

EDITed many times: so many f**k spelling mistakes tonight.

One more edit: Who is the original author of this thread??

 

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Last edited by One Drone on Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:22 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:11 am 
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unclewoja wrote:
Jaysen wrote:
your a tool mate! if king springs dont know what the f**k they are doing then why the hell do the V8 supercar boys use em. The fact still remains that most people do not the know how on how to match shock rates to progressive rate springs ( I know jack s**t too ). However, progressive rate springs were designed for the family man who wants to lower his car and still have some form of ride quality whilst he puts a caravan on the back, hence the reason why Kings are only progressive rate on the rear. If you really know so much then why dont you go work for FTR in thier suspension department and tell them all to use progressive rate springs :wink:


Actually, teh V8's use a progressive rate spring on some tracks and some conditions... not all, but they certainly do use them. Currently they're using about 600lbs to 1200lbs. Give me hard evidence, preferably in the form of a spring out of a V8 supercar, that they use single rate and not progressive rate.


One of my mates is a close personal friend with Murray Carter, my mate's father is an ex racing driver and he has raced a bit aswell. So, are you, with you're non-existant knowledge, trying to tell me that Murray, my mate, my mate's father and I don't know what we're talking about?

Progressive rate is the ultimate in performance. As you said, you know jack s**t, to shut your pie hole.


Well lets all take our hats off shall we to unclewoja the suspension guru who in the first place asks the question but is too arrogant to listen to answers. Oh by the way, all you boys out there running any thing other than a complete progressive rate setup by Jim Mock must be s**t regardless of what it is according to Mr woja. It seems that you have heard one too many stories around the back yard BBQ as a kid and like most other know it all's you are regurgitating stuff that you cant thoughtfully back up apart from the fact that your uncles mother inlaws cousin whos friend said this................................

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:19 pm 
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the rear Kings superLows are not a true progressive coil... the top section is just lightly and closely wound so they dont fall out...
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:07 pm 
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I think its been said already... But Mr Woja, why ask a question if you already have the answer...

Dont you people just love persons that have an answer for everything, even if its not right. Hows about when its information obtained from their long lost aunties cousins friend mexicana friend?

Come on, show us what your worth

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:46 am 
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JMM uses king springs

 

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