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Just a little something interesting i found. 

 

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 Post subject: Just a little something interesting i found.
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:28 am 
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Your Opinion: A Ford Engineer contacts carbibles.com about additives
In 2006 I was contacted by a Ford engineer who has worked for them for 24 years. These views do not necessarily represent Ford, but it makes an interesting read nevertheless.
Some of the things in your site are true like the pure baloney that additive companies put out. I have been with Ford for 24 years in research and development for their power train division. I have forgotten more lube problems than 90% of so-called mechanics will ever know. I like the way some mechanics make statements like they're some sort of God without being able to back them up. All that mallarkey in some of the feedback above claiming 800,000 miles on a gas engine are laughable. There is so much that goes into producing engine oil that dumping "magic" additives into it is just criminal. The quality of most addatives is questionable at best. Whilst the names may be similar, the quality is not. Additives are blended at the proper rate, heat and in the proper proportions by the manufactures of their particular product. Crude supplies are not all the same quality and the additives have to be adjusted for the quality of the base stock being used by each particular company, per batch. Dumping your own personal stuff will more than likely be way inferior to what the oil manufacturer uses. The chemicals will normally differ from the manufacturers blend, and can cancel each other out to the point where there will be no anti-wear properties left in the product. (This is one reason it's not wise to mix oils from different manufacturers together). Changing the oil from say Mobil to Shell and then to Pennzoil will have a negative effect on your engine from conflicting chemicals. Buy an oil that you may like and STICK TO THAT COMPANY'S product.
What you may get away with when using Shell may cause instant havoc with Valvoline. The major oil companies work closely with the auto manufacturers so that bearing material, seal material, roller bearings, ball bearings, and all other moving parts are not adversely affected by the oil products. This is especially true for automatic transmissions. DO NOT USE SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT IS SPECIFIED BY THE CAR MAKER FOR YOUR AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION.
Nothing in your site mentions surface finish of the journals, cylinder walls, lobing of the crank journals, or a whole host of mechanical reasons for engine life or engine early death regardless of what oil you use. Nobody has mentioned how wear is affected by hotrodding the vehicle. I can ruin any engine and oil combination that you want to give me in a few hours or less. I can wreck a transmission in 15 minutes.
What about user abuse and manufacturing defects? Grinding a crankshaft in the wrong direction of rotation will eat up the bearings in 5 to 10 minutes. Quality control during manufacturing is the key to long engine life along with following oil- and filter-change intervals as laid out by the manufacturer in your handbook that comes with the car (that nobody reads).
From Ford's perspective, they test Mobil way more than other brand. I pushed using Mobil synthetics for transmission use to eliminate low speed hot oil low pressure and the opposite problem of high speed high pressure and cold oil drag at any speed. More power is lost from pumping torque than from bearing and piston drag. Trying to keep oil pressure up to spec when hot requires a larger pump and more R.P.M. and when things are cold the pump has very high torque and most of the oil flow is going thru the pressure relief valve back into the oil pan. Wasted horsepower; it lowers gas mileage by 20 to 30%
If it takes only 12 to 15 horsepower to move the average car 60mph. and the engine plus the transmission are using 2 to 3 extra horsepower each due to high oil drag (being too thick) you can see how the C.A.F.E. ratings would not be favorable for Ford if we did not use synthetics. Engines on new Fords come with semi-synthetics and the dealerships only use this oil. Full synthetics are still better but cost more.
Conclusion: Read, learn, and use your brain.

...Free advice :D

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:09 am 
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so basicly don't skimp on your oil and keep it real..

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:14 am 
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naughtyfalcon wrote:
so basicly don't skimp on your oil and keep it real..


that and the addition of "Full synthetics are still better but cost more." at the end sums it up quite well.

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:38 am 
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i think he was having ago at some of the extra additives out there that you can add to your oil eg slick 50 etc.

oils already have additives in them esp. nowadays. i like his thinking. find an oil you like and stick with it.

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:58 pm 
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prydey wrote:
i think he was having ago at some of the extra additives out there that you can add to your oil eg slick 50 etc.

oils already have additives in them esp. nowadays. i like his thinking. find an oil you like and stick with it.

Been using full synthetic for years now and havent had any problems with getting VERY high milages from several vehicles. They cost more but are well worth it in my opinion :D

 

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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:59 pm 
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When I got my 88EA in Dec 99, it rattled all the time, the lifters that is.
After doing several oil changes, every 3mths, using 15W50 Mits oil, it still rattled.
Then I put some Nulon E20 in with the Mits oil, and it stopped rattling.
After about 2 yrs of this, I put some engine cleaner in, change the oil, put in E20 with Mits oil, and still no more rattle.
The only time it rattles, as it always has, is on start up, for about 4 secs, everytime its the same.
I know the engine is worn, turns the oil black in about 3 weeks, but is good on fuel, and has plenty of power, enough to leave std XR6's in my dust.
I know that 20% of the volume of the bottle of oil is additives, the rest is base stock oil. The additives make the oil.
The cheaper the oil (usually), the cheaper the additives used, so the cheaper oils break down sooner.

End of rant.

 

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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:11 am 
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a lot of oils these days have cleaning agents in them so they will quite often go dark even if your engine is in good nic.

full synthetics are the way to go. mobil 1 10/30 in the ba (castrol edge seems to be the only other manufacturer making a 10/30) and shell helix ultra in the eb.

i also know a couple of people that start using a thicker oil when the car gets up in the km's regardless of how the car is going. i agree with the comments made in the original article that thicker oils can create more friction and thus wear more. thicker oils create more pumping losses.

 

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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:47 pm 
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Engine oil has more than just a detergent, they also have Antiscuff agent (ususally Zinc or similar compound), Dispersents, an agent for making it a Multigrade oil ( usually a Polymer type compound, shaped like a snail shell), and some have a friction modifier as well, like Mitsubishi engine oil.
I know this because I tried it in a 4stroke motorbike and the clutch slipped in a matter of minutes, but the Ford oil of the 15W40 grade didn't.
The cheap oils use a cheap version of the polymer compound, which isn't as tightly wound as the dearer stuff, so it breaks down quickly.

End of rant.

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:14 am 
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I agree with everything above, however I know of two out of 10,000+addatives that I would personally garauntee.

PROMA has been used in many industries for 50+years.
Microglide is a relatively new(to the market) product, however it is only produced in the US and Australia. The product has been altered slightly from the original formula to comply with NASAs need for the product not to break down at temperatures in the vicinity of 2,000°C, it has been tested to 4,000°C despite lack of need. The product has passed vigorous testing. the product has insurance cover, for upto US$100,000,000 with Lloyds of London. They're one of ifnot the biggest insurance company in Europe, this is all a requirement of NASA.

Fortunately for us our engines aren't likely anytime soon, to be worth more than $100,000,000 US. And the insurance is only there so that if there is a failure, and that they can trace it back to being the addative, and that they can prove it, the engines will be replaced. However, this is never an issue, for Microglide is such a superior product to all others.

didn't mean for it to be such a rant, because you are 100% right, but you only have 98% of the truth.

Happy motoring, it was thread well spoken and informative to most all motorists.[/code]

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:50 am 
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MaTTeB wrote:
I agree with everything above, however I know of two out of 10,000+addatives that I would personally garauntee.

PROMA has been used in many industries for 50+years.
Microglide is a relatively new(to the market) product, however it is only produced in the US and Australia. The product has been altered slightly from the original formula to comply with NASAs need for the product not to break down at temperatures in the vicinity of 2,000°C, it has been tested to 4,000°C despite lack of need. The product has passed vigorous testing. the product has insurance cover, for upto US$100,000,000 with Lloyds of London. They're one of ifnot the biggest insurance company in Europe, this is all a requirement of NASA.

Fortunately for us our engines aren't likely anytime soon, to be worth more than $100,000,000 US. And the insurance is only there so that if there is a failure, and that they can trace it back to being the addative, and that they can prove it, the engines will be replaced. However, this is never an issue, for Microglide is such a superior product to all others.

didn't mean for it to be such a rant, because you are 100% right, but you only have 98% of the truth.

Happy motoring, it was thread well spoken and informative to most all motorists.[/code]



did you read of all that straight from a pamphlet or the side of the bottle? on what background can you "personally guarantee" it?

i'm not as cluey as the bloke from ford who wrote the first article but he didnt say anything that wasnt instilled into me as base values when i was an apprentice. oil companies dont spend millions of dollars developing thier product so u can pour a $10 random bottle of s**t in with it.

everything you just said i've had said to me over and over again by customers who fell for the snake oil jive and want me to put it in thier car.

i voiced my opinion of additives in general to a "believer"(of one of the products u mentioned) who passed it on to his area representative. the area rep rang me and couldnt answer any of my questions in relation to the claims of his product. up the food chain i went until the state manager phoned me. not even he could answer my questions. they may have a good product in certain applications but i'll be f**k if any of them know how it works.

they claimed that thier product would chemically penetrate and change the molecular structure of a cylinder wall and impregnate it with thier patented lubricating compound. is it acidic? no. is it alkaline? no. when i asked it pH value they had to get back to me. even shampoo has the pH level written on the bottle. ok if the product is neutral how does it chemically penetrate and mix with the ferrous molecules of the cylinder bore????? if you put too much in why doesnt it turn the cylinder walls to mush???

and thats even without considering that thier chemicals may have an adverse reaction to the base product.

it'd be close to 12 years ago that i asked those questions and even their big knobs found it too hard. in the meantime i wish i'd transcribed so i could remember some of the s**t they tried to spin me to convince me. they're just salesman who can quote a pamphlet and believe s**t that they were spun. it may do what they say but until they can prove it to me without a dedicated demonstration model i'll remain unconvinced.


if you believe thier sales pitches without using a bit of common sense and doing some research then do you wanna buy some of my invisible fish? they make good pets, dont eat much

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:35 pm 
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Maybe he will buy you a new engine if it packs it in whilst this additive is in it.....

 

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