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Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima??? 

 

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Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
10% better 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
20% better 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
30% better 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
40% better 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
50% better 20%  20%  [ 6 ]
60% better 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
70% better 10%  10%  [ 3 ]
80% better 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
90% better 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
100% better 47%  47%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 30

 

 

 
 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Cheers mate

Your a champion :D

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:22 pm 
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What sort of prices are we talking for these Bilstein shocks? Your all talking about selling kidneys and all that, any sort of price range? I'm running Lovell Ultralows on standard springs - WORST mistake of my life. I want to upgrade looking at the Pedders suspension set up, but might see what these Bilstein's are like on a XR6 or Low sort of height spring.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:01 am 
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Greenmachine wrote:
I haven't tried Ultima or Boge (aren't Ultima cheapo Chinese brand?) - but here's what I put in another thread just a short time ago:

Things I've tried in my ED:

Monroe Sensatrak shockies - crap, stay away from them.
Monroe GT Premium + King Low springs (ie. same height as std XR6) - crap, stay away from them.

Pedders Sports Ryder Shocks with King Low Springs - mmm, ok but nothing special - bit harsh.

KYB Shockies with King Low springs - very decent - very similar to Sports Ryders but not quite as harsh - nothing special for handling tho - IMO ideal replacement for OEM Shocks on a std car.

Koni Reds with King Low springs - lovely ride especially on smooth roads and overall very nice ride on all sorts of surfaces tho tending harsh on really choppy surfaces - handling performance shockingly POOR!! Absolutely nothing special and with a nasty tendency to make a diagonal balance shift partway thru corners - especially nasty at high speed on sweeping bends.

Koni Yellows with King Low springs - very similar to the reds above but overall firmer and somewhat better for handling tho still POOR!! Same nasty balance shift - and I tried adjusting in all possible ways to sort it and never made any headway - finally one of the front ones started vomiting oil from the adjuster head and vendor would not help me at all - "must be using them incorrectly" - yeah, as in I was foolish enough to fit them to a car....

Gabriel VST shockies with King Low springs - excellent all round for ride AND handling - Variable Sensing Technology valving works marvellously - feels like active suspension where in corners the inside settles a bit whilst outside firms up - handling amazing - balance lovely. BUT - they crapped out in only 5000km. was going to just buy them by the carton and settle for changing them every few months but decided to try Bilsteins first (wasn't expecting much after the dismal failure of the much vaunted Konis).

Bilstein shockies with King Low springs - haven't looked back - really good ride with fantastic handling - similar type of variable valving response to the Gabriels (tho not quite as good!) - good way to describe their ride is: have ridden in late model Commondung SS V8 and by comparison the Commondung feels less firm on smooth to gentle bumps but harsher on sharper bumps than the Bilsteins in my ED - even really choppy dirt roads are quite decent to drive on in my ED with the Bilsteins. Have driven over same dirt road (talking about 10km) in Forrester XT and my ED and the ED felt MUCH more comfortable and handled way BETTER.

With both the Gabriels and Bilsteins, the harder you push the car in corners (within reason of course) the better it seems to just hunker down and STICK - and soak up chop and irregularities without coming unstuck or skipping about - amazing and wonderful experience - I find myself thinking "holy crap!" with a huge grin on my face.

I used to drive a stock standard Series 1 RX7 many years ago and that's the only other car I ever came across that had the same sort of almost supernatural ability to just hold on and keep it all together when every nerve in your body is screaming that it should all be coming apart.

Sway Bars - I have adjustable Whiteline bars on front and back (Selby) and find them more useful for dialing in front/rear balance than for reducing roll as such - ie. in that respect I actually run overall firmness just a bit more than factory bars - you'd need to be using REALLY good tyres to cope with reducing roll by much more I think. Was constantly messing with the bars during use of all the shockies described above but for the Gabs I just had to make one adjustment and she was apples - and likewise when the Bilsteins went in I just had to tweak the balance once and haven't touched it in 5 years since....

Use Superpro bushes (Nolathane - YUCK!!) - and try Fulcrum for prices as I got extremely good deal on my Bilsteins compared to what anyone else was asking.

edit/additional: of course the commentary above is all related to the shockies - the King Low springs are fine throughout. With Bilsteins - NEVER use variable rate springs - the interaction with the shockies variable valving causes very nasty handling. With normal constant rate Low Kings the Bilsteins are fine.



Your summary of shocks really isn't that helpful to someone using sl/ssl springs. Ur just comparing those shocks to pretty much standard height springs, now seriously not many people are going to spend hundreds of dollars on shocks if there only using standard height springs , these shocks are good with low springs but could be s**t with sl / ssl.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:58 am 
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ef_falcon_95 wrote:
Your summary of shocks really isn't that helpful to someone using sl/ssl springs. Ur just comparing those shocks to pretty much standard height springs, now seriously not many people are going to spend hundreds of dollars on shocks if there only using standard height springs , these shocks are good with low springs but could be s**t with sl / ssl.


Better then what you've had to offer to this thread.
anyone whos serious about a good handling car and actually wants to spend big dollars on suspension typically doesn't go and buy SSL King Springs anyway.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Well I want my car low and a decent ride.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Well I want my car low and a decent ride.

 

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Aiming for 300 rwkw

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:28 pm 
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im running bilstein shocks in my el turbo and i love em.car handles great and its not as low as alot of cars on the forum.this is my 3rd falcon running bilstiens and i wont use anything else!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:37 pm 
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+1 bilstein shocks. complete awesomeness :mrgreen:

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:43 pm 
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ef_falcon_95 wrote:
Well I want my car low and a decent ride.


Then perhaps instead of having a go at someones decent effort at giving people an answer, ask the question about how people have experienced them with SL/SSL.

being a **** will only cause people to ignore you and your questions.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Yeah wasn't really thinking when I was writing it then realised i should of worded it better,
I know the rid quality is s**t cos of the 19"s but I'm not getting rid of them

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:48 pm 
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Bilsteins and Ultima done even belong in the same sentence.
My old NF had Bilsteins in it and it was awesome. It handled like it was on rails and was damn comfy.
The shocks are that good they are sitting here waiting for me to find time to putthem in the XR8.
Ultima. I wouldnt even spit on them after having used them before.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:21 pm 
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Just realised I never did get round to posting those part numbers - sorry!! :-(

As far as handling with SL / SSL... WTF would it be any different??? - I believe the comments and observations I made would be entirely applicable.

One further observation I have is that in my EF now I have std springs in back and King Low in front but the shockie seats adjusted up to match the rear - ie. std height - and it has become apparent that the front and back are really not entirely in tune with each other - so I'm going to have to either put std springs in front or replace the std rears with HD std height or King LOWs with spacers to make up to std height. Lowering I'm not keen on as f*** it's nice not having to worry about scraping on curbs and gutters and it's sweet to be able to just glide straight over the top of roundabouts.

 

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Last edited by Greenmachine on Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:47 pm 
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I can vouch for how good Bilsteins are in my BA Pursuit which is stupidly low with dobinsons coils and reset/modified leaves. I also had the same Bilstein coil overs in my ill-fated BF Super Pursuit which was also rediculously low. In fact it rode/handled much better in spite of the lowness. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Hi guys, How do you post wellmeaning advice in a forum without sounding like a smart a*** or a know all ? Every set up we do is a compromise, nothing is perfect.
The first question we ask is " are we comparing apples with apples'" . Oil filled shocks in my opinion should never have been foisted on an unsuspecting public! Progress has led us to the gas pressurised shock absorber ( albeit still filled with oil) .The two types cannot be considered in the same sentence IMO. U get what u pay for..
Even the worst gas shocker is streets ahead of the best oil filled brand.
Sorry fellas, after the oil in a standard shock gains a certain temperature (after about 20 ks travel) it takes on the characteristics of a Bicycle Pump !
A shock absorber is meant to control the kinetic energy released by the springs following their constant compression and rebound forced on them by the conditions.
Lest some posters take umbrage with the above statememts U can PM me if any further help is required. I have NO vested interest in the motor industry, I do have all the answers, but no one asks the questions !

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:45 pm 
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ralfnada wrote:
Hi guys, How do you post wellmeaning advice in a forum without sounding like a smart a*** or a know all ? Every set up we do is a compromise, nothing is perfect.
The first question we ask is " are we comparing apples with apples'" . Oil filled shocks in my opinion should never have been foisted on an unsuspecting public! Progress has led us to the gas pressurised shock absorber ( albeit still filled with oil) .The two types cannot be considered in the same sentence IMO. U get what u pay for..
Even the worst gas shocker is streets ahead of the best oil filled brand.
Sorry fellas, after the oil in a standard shock gains a certain temperature (after about 20 ks travel) it takes on the characteristics of a Bicycle Pump !
A shock absorber is meant to control the kinetic energy released by the springs following their constant compression and rebound forced on them by the conditions.
Lest some posters take umbrage with the above statememts U can PM me if any further help is required. I have NO vested interest in the motor industry, I do have all the answers, but no one asks the questions !



Ahh! - ok - just re read the first post and got the context of oil / oil type reference - Du-OH! (facepalm) And yes, I agree.

 

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Last edited by Greenmachine on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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