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Locker in falcon info? 

 

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 Post subject: Locker in falcon info?
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:05 pm 
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Does anyone have any information on Manual Locker's in falcons?

From memory ARB's website says they have an Air Locker that fits.
TJM have an air locker that is cheaper than ARB's i think, but their website does not show availability for falcons.

I am going to put large off-road wheels on my falcon ute and really need a locker. A Detroit Locker may be okay but i will be driving at highway speeds on cold, wet and icy roads for a significant part of the year and don't want anything that upsets the handling. As far as i am told the Lokka (Lock-Right?) can be noisy and upset the handling.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Locker in falcon info?
Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:15 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Does anyone have any information on Manual Locker's in falcons?

From memory ARB's website says they have an Air Locker that fits.
TJM have an air locker that is cheaper than ARB's i think, but their website does not show availability for falcons.

I am going to put large off-road wheels on my falcon ute and really need a locker. A Detroit Locker may be okay but i will be driving at highway speeds on cold, wet and icy roads for a significant part of the year and don't want anything that upsets the handling. As far as i am told the Lokka (Lock-Right?) can be noisy and upset the handling.


Ring your local TJM dealer or ring (02) 6885 3777

imo i would stay away from ARB but that is cause i have heard little about them... TJM have ther own test track and test centre to sort out a heap of issuse and dramas..... an air locker might be similar to the one in the RTV..

 

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 Post subject: Re: Locker in falcon info?
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:25 pm 
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Froudey wrote:
Ring your local TJM dealer or ring (02) 6885 3777

Yeah, i might do that on monday and then let everyone know.


Quote:
imo i would stay away from ARB but that is cause i have heard little about them... TJM have ther own test track and test centre to sort out a heap of issuse and dramas..... an air locker might be similar to the one in the RTV..

ARB have been around for a long time designing and manufacturing in Victoria. They make the Air Locker themselves (as far as i understand) and bullbars etc, but not everything, for example their Old Man Emu shock absorbers are made by Monroe. Their Air Locker is well proven in 4wd circles, to the point that it is used almost exclusively. My 2005 price list quotes:
Air Locker $1195 Fitting $310
Air Compressor $175 Fitting $100
Air Compressor & Tyre Inflation Kit $335 Fitting $140
I already have an air compressor and could mount it myself so might be looking at say $1500. Add a ratio change and the dollars are adding up.

TJM have been around for a similar amount of time i think but generally aren't as technical as ARB, i suspect they outsource everything, though some things to their design. Their Pro Locker has only been released recently but somehow they say it has been around for 20 years, perhaps they bought/adapted it from someone else.

Not too long ago 4wdsystems.com quoted a Lokka for a falcon at $599. It would be interesting to know if any specialist knowledge is required and how much to fit if you can't do it yourself. I'm still interested in feedback on the driveability of this locker. As far as i understand these are similar if not the same as early model Detroit Lockers. Later model Detroits are smoother, but more expensive to the point where an Air Locker may be preferred.

I'll see if i can research what is in the RTV.

The wheel wells are so large in my XG i wonder if ford had a 4wd version in mind but didn't get around to it till the Territory & RTV?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Locker in falcon info?
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:59 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
I'll see if i can research what is in the RTV.

The wheel wells are so large in my XG i wonder if ford had a 4wd version in mind but didn't get around to it till the Territory & RTV?

How about that, the RTV isn't actually a 4wd.

It has 215/65R16 wheels which look a bit wussy, i reckon i will be able to fit 245/70R17's to my XG with only minor and easily reversible modification. These would provide 3" of lift which should be enough for me (similar to RTV), meaning i can leave the suspension at the same height.

Some searches revealed:

"The other part of RTV’s off-road package is a new locally developed Differential Locking System (DLS) that boasts a number of firsts. Adapted from Ford Courier models sold in other markets and supplied by Falcon IRS manufacturer Dana/Spicer, DLS employs a vacuum operated, in-diff yoke to lock both sides of the rear axle together, but it’s the first time this has been controlled (from an on-dash button) via the Powertrain Control Module. It is also the first time DLS has been used in Falcon’s heavy-duty M86 diff, which is reserved for use with V8s only while Falcon sixes employ a regular M78 unit. Switchable via a dash-mounted button below 40km/h, DLS automatically unlocks at 70km/h and will automatically relock when speed drops back below 40km/h, unless DLS is cancelled. A green instrument warning light illuminates when the system is active."

elsewhere . . .

"But the most intriguing part of the RTV's driveline is its electronic lockable DANA/Spicer rear diff. In normal conditions the diff allows the left and right axles to rotate independently of each other. But push the in-cabin diff lock button and a pair of dog gears mesh inside the diff to lock the left and right axles together. This means wheelspin will occur only when both rear wheels have inadequate traction. Note that diff lock is actuated only at speeds below 40 km/h and it automatically disengages at a speed greater than 70 km/h. Ford says it's unlikely a locked rear axle is required at speeds above 40 km/h. We tested the electronic diff lock on loose dirt and can vouch that it certainly aids traction."

elsewhere again . . .

"Ive had my RTV ute for about 4 months now and I'm hearing "serious" clunking noises from the diff , but only when the diff lock is engaged. Its more noticable on tight turns and when decelarating.The diff is ok when not locked although there is a very slight clunk when changing gears in normal mode. There is also axle tramp at times ,which apparently the car is not meant to do given the stiffer suspension and tramp rods built into vehicle design. Dealer suggested playing with tyre pressures and/or changing tyres completely!? Not the answer I wanted to hear for a new car!!
I'm going to the RAA (motoring association here in SA) on Monday for a diagnosis. I'll keep posts coming with any new developments.
In the mean time, has anyone else heard of similar diff problems with the diff lock mechanism??
I have heard that conventional diffs in AU and BA are also known for clunking...must be an ongoing Ford problem?"

"Maaaate, got the same problem with my RTV. I bought it with 1000 klm on the clock and no s**t mate within three months it was making those clunking noises and also has a heavy whine in it. Dropped it in for its 15000 service at Southside Ford in Brisbane and they new about it straight up. Now waiting for new diff, been told about three weeks wait. While I'm on it, she's a thirsty bugger. 15-16 lt per 100. My Ba V8 gets 10-11 , what's doin there?"

 

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 Post subject: Re: Locker in falcon info?
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:43 pm 
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relaxed_diplomacy wrote:
Not too long ago 4wdsystems.com quoted a Lokka for a falcon at $599. It would be interesting to know if any specialist knowledge is required and how much to fit if you can't do it yourself. I'm still interested in feedback on the driveability of this locker. As far as i understand these are similar if not the same as early model Detroit Lockers. Later model Detroits are smoother, but more expensive to the point where an Air Locker may be preferred.


I am also very interested to hear from someone who has actually fit a lokks, as it states on the website it should only take an hour or so and is pretty straight forward.

From what I understand the lokka forces both wheels to atleast spin at the minimum speed that the engine is driving the car, however one wheel can spin faster. This means when going around corners it does the opposite of an LSD or open diff in that the inside wheel does the driving and the outside wheel speeds up (and hence there is differentiation). If someone could clarify if this is correct?? Im not sure how early detroit lockers worked, but i was under the impression they were quite different mechanically...

 

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Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:28 pm 
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Here's one testimony:

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=71251

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:34 pm 
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Here's another:

http://outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/p ... c0b58e5c0e

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:50 pm 
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TJM 1973
ARB 1975

forgive my ignorance but what would the locker help you to do?

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:03 pm 
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And yet another:

http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtop ... 424b1e0c84

In my searches i have come across some good reports, though most of those were for 4wd's that have dis-engageable front hubs, meaning the front locker is disconnected on road.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:15 pm 
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A Lokka and a Detroit anecdote:

http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/f10/ ... ers-36243/

Some problems with a Lokka in the front:

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... c&start=20

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:40 pm 
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Froudey wrote:
TJM 1973
ARB 1975

forgive my ignorance but what would the locker help you to do?

I'm not sure if you're speaking to me or skidder, so here's my answer; collect firewood, avoid getting stuck anywhere, drive most tracks rated 4wd on a map.

One trap to watch out for in a ute with a rear locker is it still isn't good at reversing up steep grades. So if you are descending a steep narrow track you might want to walk it first to ensure you can make it through.

Positives are you still have a good handling, reasonably aerodynamic, reasonably refined, not too heavy, cheap to buy, run and maintain vehicle. And grunt too.

If you look at jap utes as an example of the weight difference they are around 300kg heavier when 4wd is added, which is typically dead weight 99.9% of the time.

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:11 pm 
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It's been a cold rainy soggy day at my place, hence much computer time.

From Wikipedia:

Locking Differential (Detroit Locker/Lokka(tm))
A locker locks both wheels under normal conditions i.e. the default state is locked. If a wheel is externally forced to rotate faster than the differential centre (i.e. the outer wheel in a corner) the mechanism unlocks that wheel and allows it to turn freely (but only so long as it rotates faster than the centre). Thus the locker has the extremely unusual characteristic of applying drive torque through the inner wheel in corners. Driveshaft input torque causes the pinion cross shaft to lock the centre more firmly, resisting the unlocking action. Often used in off-road 4WD applications. Can be very noisy. The traditional American racing differential is a Detroit Locker. Can be difficult to control under power in corners as the two actions of the mechanism are contradictory, the car will unpredictably alternate between one wheel and two wheel drive.[5]

 

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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:15 pm 
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Eaton (Detroit) have developed a push button electronically controlled locking differential and called it the ELocker. It doesn't seem available for the falcon yet but i've asked and am waiting for a reply.

For information:
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsS ... /index.htm

An Australian distributor:
http://www.harrop.com.au/performance_products.html

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:31 pm 
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I emailed TJM about the possibility of using a pro-locker in a falcon. Here is their answer straight from the horses mouth:

> Dear TJM,
>
> Do you plan to make the pro-locker available for the falcon rear axle?
> Mine is a BTR J18H4.


Unfortunately we have no intention of building lockers for passenger cars
at this stage.
Cheers

Michael Peters
Customer Sales

TJM - SERIOUS 4WD EQUIPMENT
150 Robinson Rd
Geebung 4034
Brisbane Australia
Ph: +61 7 3865 9999
Fax: +61 7 3865 9991
mpeters@tjm.com.au
www.tjm.com.au

 

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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:58 pm 
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did tell them it was for a ute not a sedan?

 

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