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NOVICE GUY - 1 ton Leafs in EF wagon, XR6 lows, Super Charge 

 

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 Post subject: NOVICE GUY - 1 ton Leafs in EF wagon, XR6 lows, Super Charge
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:39 pm 
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I put slotted and dimpled on the front last weekend. LOVE IT. Along with getting the rears put through a lathe and stripping all the calipers and cleaning and replacing worn bits etc etc. AWESOME. Couldn't be happier with the brake side of things...

It is now time to look at the DIFF, SHOCKS and SPRINGS that will replace the tired old set up I have now.

DIFF
-----
The Fairmont Wagon does not have LSD, neither does the Futura. Am not sure about the Fairmont Sedan I also currently own. Is it possible to take the angle grinder to the shock and spring mounts on the SEDAN DIFF AXLES? Then the diff should just slide onto the leaf spring set up ... Alternatively, if the sedan does turn out to be LSD, how tricky is it to remove the diff and put the centre onto the other axles? Or, should I just sell all three diffs and use the money to purchase a whole LSD one that is from a stationwagon or ute, and will just slot straight in?!!

SHOCKIES
------------
I am basically going to get some of these when I can afford it --- But --- Can you use ones of earlier X series, or 90's EA, EB models? Are they EF / EL specific?

SPRINGS
----------
Leaf spring rear - So am looking at putting some from a UTE into my Stationwagon... They are a bit stiffer, are they not? I carry a fair weight of tools and building supplies in the back... So, I'd like to stiffen the springs a bit and maybe lower the a*** of wagon 1" to keep weight lower to ground for slightly better handling.
Coil spring front - Would like to go lower to improve the body roll... Again, are the springs EF or EL specific or can I use the xd,xe,xf style "low" King Spring? There's a guy with a front set for sale $50..!




Maybe I should just go and sit around in a performance car shop and ask questions, but they'd only want to sell me stuff on the spot and I want to take my time, find the best deal and learn something about my own car along the way.

Last edited by fiend on Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: COMPLETE NOVICE NEEDS A LITTLE NUDGE IN RIGHT DIRECTION
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:45 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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fiend wrote:
SHOCKIES
------------
I am basically going to get some of these when I can afford it --- But --- Can you use ones of earlier X series, or 90's EA, EB models? Are they EF / EL specific?

I happen to have a monroe catalogue at hand and the front shocks listed for the EF/EL are the same for std and lowered, and different to other models. It may be that they are basically the same as earlier and/or later models, but there are minor differences like brake hose bracket locations, for example.

The rears are the same from the XR to the EL, and the same whether std or lowered height.


Quote:
SPRINGS
----------
Leaf spring rear - So am looking at putting some from a UTE into my Stationwagon... They are a bit stiffer, are they not? I carry a fair weight of tools and building supplies in the back... So, I'd like to stiffen the springs a bit and maybe lower the a*** of wagon 1" to keep weight lower to ground for slightly better handling.

I don't know for sure but imagine the springs for the ute are stiffer, but you should check, a visual check should suffice. Counting the number of leaves may be enough, but a fuller check would include checking the thickness and lengths of the leaves. I'm asuming they are the same basic design, i think they are, with all the leaves with a similar camber and shorter as you go down the pack.

I can't imagine the ute springs lowering it, if not a lowering block might do the job. Or if the ute springs are a fair bit stiffer but not lowered, you might consider removing a leaf to lower the height, as long as you retain enough stiffness doing this.


Quote:
Coil spring front - Would like to go lower to improve the body roll... Again, are the springs EF or EL specific or can I use the xd,xe,xf style "low" King Spring? There's a guy with a front set for sale $50..!

X-series front springs are probably too different to e-series front springs to be used. X-series have a smaller internal diameter and a ground top, and the length and rates would need to be checked anyway and few could tell you for sure what you'd get.


Quote:
Maybe I should just go and sit around in a performance car shop and ask questions, but they'd only want to sell me stuff on the spot and I want to take my time, find the best deal and learn something about my own car along the way.

Hope this helps.

 

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 Post subject: Re: COMPLETE NOVICE NEEDS A LITTLE NUDGE IN RIGHT DIRECTION
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:00 am 
Getting Side Ways
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relaxed_but not asleep by any stretch_diplomacy wrote:
[
I happen to have a monroe catalogue at hand and the front shocks listed for the EF/EL are the same for std and lowered, and different to other models. It may be that they are basically the same as earlier and/or later models, but there are minor differences like brake hose bracket locations, for example.


Hmmmph. I guess I am stuck with waiting a little longer for the right bit to become available then. All good, am quite happy to wait - I don't remember seeing any brake hose clips or similar, so the changes could be somewhat more required..!

Quote:
The rears are the same from the XR to the EL, and the same whether std or lowered height.

Thanks! Maybe I should go ring someone like Munroe and get a catalog!



Quote:
SPRINGS
----------
Leaf spring rear - So am looking at putting some from a UTE into my Stationwagon...

I don't know for sure but imagine the springs for the ute are stiffer, but you should check, a visual check should suffice. Counting the number of leaves may be enough, but a fuller check would include checking the thickness and lengths of the leaves. I'm asuming they are the same basic design, i think they are, with all the leaves with a similar camber and shorter as you go down the pack.

Yes - a good measurement is a good idea. I think the longreach ute of similar year (94/95) actually has an extra leaf. Which is why I want it... Stiffer. At the moment I bottom out occasionally when going around sharp off camber corners (something it doesn't do without tools in!!!)


Quote:
I can't imagine the ute springs lowering it, if not a lowering block might do the job. Or if the ute springs are a fair bit stiffer but not lowered, you might consider removing a leaf to lower the height, as long as you retain enough stiffness doing this.

Yeahp - Am thinking UTE STIFF springs and a slightly higher axle position via "lowering block"... I do want the a** end stiffer as the loads I carry pull / push the thing all over the road when cornering (see above). NZ (and especially Wellington) has a lot of narrow, hilly, very twisted streets... Something you Aussie fellas just dream about?!



Quote:
X-series front springs are probably too different to e-series front springs to be used. X-series have a smaller internal diameter and a ground top, and the length and rates would need to be checked anyway and few could tell you for sure what you'd get.


Hmmmph. Damn it, there goes my cheap option number 2. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing semi-properly and all that. I will wait some more for the fronts to become avialable. I know a guy who has some in his EL V8 and he's swapping them as since putting the V8 in he's decided it sits too low.






Quote:
Hope this helps.


Sure thing man. Only thing now - At risk of being stupid.....

HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET THE SIDE BIT OFF THE REAR SEAT IN THE STATION WAGON TO GET AT THE SHOCK TOWER?!!!!!!

Damnit!!!! hehehe - I think I've bent my crowbar on it!!!!
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:20 pm 
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 Post subject: AC DELCO SUSPENSION LIST
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:01 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:42 am 
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Springs:
I would recommend "low" King Springs, both front and rear for
your wagon. The rear leaf units perform particularly well
in my opinion. No need for lowering blocks either.
New or near new, its worth the money....

Check out the King Springs catalogue.
http://www.kingsprings.com/King_Springs_Catalogue.htm

Shocks:
I have had good results with KYB. Pretty good, at a fair price.
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:36 am 
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I've had XF & XH utes and the leaf springs can be quite tricky. They will be stiffer, as the are rated to about 750kg on std models. Then there is the one tonne which has stiffer springs again. If you can get your hands on XR ute leaves they are a bit weaker and only hold about 500kg from memory (feel free to correct me anyone).

If you want to stiffen it up get a set of ute leaves and then to lower you can use lowering blocks as they drop the car without changing the spring rate or you can have the leaves "reset" by a local suspension shop which can lower them to your desired height.

For the body roll the best money you can spend will be on a rear swaybar. I'm not sure if the wagons had them standard or not but my ute doesn't have one and the roll is terrible. Whiteline suspension sells sway bars to suit wagons for about $240 and you can fit it yourself too. That will stiffen the ride right up and solve your roll issues.

 

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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:04 pm 
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I recommend you sort out the springs first, they are the cornerstone of the operation, upon which the other components are specified.

Then decide if you want to try the springs with or without the O.E swaybar. The ute springs probably didn't come with a swaybar, so if you use it the car will be a long way stiffer than stock, and will overload the chassis, giving you bad NVH, and will increase oversteer.

Then see how this goes with any shocks you have, if you have any.

If you aren't happy with the situation, consider getting some more appropriate shocks. I think Monroe list an extra heavy duty 4wd sized model which might interest you.

 

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 Post subject: Re: COMPLETE NOVICE NEEDS A LITTLE NUDGE IN RIGHT DIRECTION
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:30 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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fiend wrote:
NZ (and especially Wellington) has a lot of narrow, hilly, very twisted streets... Something you Aussie fellas just dream about?!

There's a narrow, hilly, twisted, sometimes dirt, road from where i live with hardly a straight in it for a full 120kms. Plus you can meet a logging truck at anytime. Plus you can meet wildlife anytime, and the chances at night are almost guaranteed. I met a lizard, a bird, then a cow the first time i drove it, but thankfully just didn't hit the cow. The second time at night brought about three wombats and herds of kangaroos. Even driven at normal pace it taxes concentration levels over time. I don't tend to have concentration problems, but once even i decided to go a much longer route instead. It was night.

Quote:
HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET THE SIDE BIT OFF THE REAR SEAT IN THE STATION WAGON TO GET AT THE SHOCK TOWER?!!!!!!

Push the seat down at the bottom of the side bit and you will see a 10mm headed bolt. Undo that. Then fold down the seat back and remove the lug that keeps it back when it's back, try a 19mm spanner, from memory. Then slide the side bit up.

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:52 pm 
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AWESOME everybody - Awesome.

I am learning some stuff here that will be put into practice once time, money, and the missus, allow!

Still waiting for my SUPER LOW KING's to become available for the front... Should get the front down to XR6 style, at least.

And yes, maybe some more heavy duty shocks are the key - I would've liked the one tonne leaf springs, but am still keeping eye out...

I don't understand how a sway bar works within a live axle, leaf sprung rear.... Just where do you connect the bloody thing to at each end?!


Thanks again everyone... Am still working on this here wagon.... I'll get there eventually...
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:13 pm 
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OKAY - So I'm trying to buy springs off someone, and I mention a product code - He asks if I want COIL OVERS or SPRINGS? What the hell are coil overs?!!!
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:32 pm 
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fiend wrote:
OKAY - So I'm trying to buy springs off someone, and I mention a product code - He asks if I want COIL OVERS or SPRINGS? What the hell are coil overs?!!!


You want springs buy springs!

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:47 am 
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NA, it's not a Falcon, it a Fairlane... wrote:
fiend wrote:
OKAY - So I'm trying to buy springs off someone, and I mention a product code - He asks if I want COIL OVERS or SPRINGS? What the hell are coil overs?!!!


You want springs buy springs!


Good man NAFAIRLANE - That's what I intend to do alright! Only thing - I looked up the part number of the springs on DOBI (Dobinsons Shocks) website and I may have looked up a "coil over" - which I have no idea what the hell they are!.. I have a quote of $225 (NZ) for DOBI C19-094, which are listed as springs on the Dobinsons Springs guide... So, guess I should be right... Just clueless as to what COIL OVERS are... Rank.

I am but an amateur, and dangerous with it.


PS - I used to drive the 500SE-Large - you gotta love that double glazing and the way the doors pull themselves shut if you don't latch them properly. If I could get some of those electric seats to fit into my current Futurlane I'd be a happy man...

 

 

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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:31 am 
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fiend wrote:
I don't understand how a sway bar works within a live axle, leaf sprung rear.... Just where do you connect the bloody thing to at each end?!

They can be fitted in a variety of ways, but commonly the bar runs along the front of the axle, and may be connected to the axle with some U-bolts with D bushes, and the ends connect to the chassis with bushed links.

Just look under the back of your wagon and let us know if there is one there.

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:34 pm 
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^^^^^^^^^ RELAXED OLD BROTHER ^^^^^^^^^

Right - NO SWAY BAR. (Which was noticable when doing the 700km round trip to pick up the kids this weekend with all the tools taken out the back..>!)

Secondly - I am now missing a large hunk of thumb and knuckle due to wrestling with a XF ute's a*** end for hours in order to get the leaf springs out. I got them out, and the wounds are pussing up nicely, thankyouverymuch.

Never having touched a leaf spring before, it was interesting little experience. Local wrecker charged me $15 each for them, if I pulled them off myself. Everything was hard to remove... Ended up hacksawing through three of the four U-bolts... Am going to put lowering blocks on, so may need longer U-Bolts anyway....

Am still waiting for the guy to make his XR6 low springs available for the front, but at least I have a course of brand new $55 shocks for rear and the seven leaf springs just sitting there looking staunch!

If there's no sign of his XR6 springs this weekend I may just bite the bullet and go buy some brand new Kings...

The brakes work bloody well by the way (Zonelli slotted and dimpled) but I think that the "ticking" they make will get annoying. Do I need to start bleeding them all over again, replace the old rubber lines... Or is the "ticking" normal, and I shouldn't worry about the pads being in slight contact with the disk?!
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