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Speedo died and trans playing up - now a transport issue 

 

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 Post subject: Speedo died and trans playing up - now a transport issue
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:04 pm 
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I was driving along and suddenly the speedo completely died with no warning. Then i noticed the trans wouldn't kick down when i floored the throttle. Later i had a problem where there was no drive at all. Then it went into first and stayed there no matter what i did. Then it ran normally again. The speedo has remained dead.

Looking at the wiring diagram, the speedo sender goes straight to the speedo, but there is also a white wire going to the EAT (trans ecu) and the main ECU. So i don't think with this knowledge i can conclusively say that any one component is definitely the problem.

If i jacked up the back axle and left the motor idling in 1st, i may be able to see if the speedo sender is giving an appropriate signal, but hope there is an easier way?

 

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Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:07 pm 
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The ECU needs a speedo input to control the auto, without it, it will put the auto into limp home mode (locked in 3rd, unless manually changed).
The other problems seem a tad strange?
Check wiring from the speedo sender, may even have to grab another sender to test, they can just up and die.

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:06 pm 
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Shame, my wreck's speedo doesn't work either, so it's sender is doubtful. I guess i'll check the wiring, and get a quote on a new one.

If the wiring was the problem i would normally expect there to be an immediate cause like a stick pulling the wire, or a fluctuating needle, even momentary fluctuations, before it died.

At the end of my run the auto was shifting normally, it wasn't locked in 3rd. (maybe there was enough signal for the trans but not for the speedo, seems unlikely though?).

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:37 pm 
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yeah that does seems strange.
I'm not 100% on the 'order' of the signal for the EA-EDs.
I have a gut feeling it goes sender - ECU - dash.
So it could be possible the signal is weak after the ECU?
EF-EL the signal goes through the dash before it goes to the ECU.

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:50 pm 
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I think you misssed an edit to my first post. My manual's wiring diagram shows the speedo sender directly connected to the speedo. The white and red wires from the sender go straight to the speedo. The EAT ECU and main ECU are tapped into the white wire.

Maybe a problem with these taps into the white wire could damage the signal, in which case the sender is working fine but the signal isn't getting to the speedo?

Are you sure a dud sender will result in limp home mode? Is there no other way the ecu's might be able to decide shift points? Engine load?

It seems my cars give me all the problems hard to solve!

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:04 pm 
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Ah yep, missed that edit.
The speedo signal is a PWM signal, so you won't know if it's accurate unless you've got a scope (or a really sweet multimeter), but you could just probe for any voltage at all I guess, to see if sender is completely dead?

I am 99.9% sure a lack of VSS will put the auto into limp home mode :)
I would try a known working sender before digging through looms for a possible dodgy wire.

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:05 pm 
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The speedo unit itself can die too can't it. In that case it would have somehow periodically damaged the signal going to the EAT ecu and/or ECU, to give the trans problems?

 

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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:12 pm 
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NFI on that one.
Easy to test though, disconnect it, see what happens. Try a spare/known working cluster?

Try the easy stuff first, then move onto complicated, because you've got me running through scenarios in my head where the problems aren't related and the cluster has just happened to die at the same time the inhibitor switch is playing up or the trans fluid is overheating or low :lol:

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:36 pm 
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More information . . .

- When i first picked up the car after having bought it the trans was low in oil and there were drive problems, no history was available. Oil had been leaking from the tailshaft seal and bellhousing. I topped it up and it went fine. I replaced the tailshaft seal, bush, pump seal, filter and oil. The old oil had shiny aluminium in it but the particles were so small you couldn't feel them between your fingers. Done 222k.

- Three times when disembarking from the vehicle recently i have noticed a hot oil smell. I hoped this was leftovers from my p/s pump leaks, even though i had cleaned that up, but now i'm wondering.

- I drove the vehicle again this morning and the car would accelerate in first gear but not change to second, even if i tried to do it manually. Then if i released the accelerator, the car would roll freely in no gear at all, and if i pressed the accelerator again the engine would merely rev with no forward acceleration. If i kept the pedal down and if the car slowed, it would then start to drive again in first gear.

- The speedo remains dead with no flickering.

 

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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Further to the above post, please read, my analysis so far is either:

1. The speedo sender failed and the trans is not able to go into LHM for some reason.
2. The trans ecu is having problems and damaging the signal to the speedo. Where is the trans ecu located? Mr Ellery hasn't told me so far.
3. The speedo died and the trans has an unrelated mechanical problem.

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:00 pm 
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I've scoured my memory banks and recall having moments prior to the recent episode where the trans gave no drive, i was just driving along and it freewheeled, then drive returned and i went on my merry way. At the time it happenned i didn't know what to think as it tended to happen at the same time as fuel problems.

 

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Last edited by relaxed_diplomacy on Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:53 am 
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I spoke to the nearest auto trans place, they are 2.5 hours away in canberra. They suggested i go to an auto elec first, being so far away. The nearest auto elec is 1.5 hours away. The problem with both is the car when last driven wouldn't go beyond first gear.

I'm really hoping i can get some help here. If someone at least tells me where the trans ecu is located i could swap in the one from my wreck to try?

Another idea might be to disconnect the speedo sender and then maybe i could drive in third gear, or maybe there is another way to induce LHM?

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:22 am 
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Are you checking fluid level with the engine running and trans in park?
No drive generally means low fluid.

If this is the EBII in your sig the trans control is integral with the EEC.

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:52 am 
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Steady ED wrote:
Are you checking fluid level with the engine running and trans in park?
No drive generally means low fluid.

Yes, engine running, may have been in neutral though this time, but other times was in park. Maybe i'll double check in park.

Quote:
If this is the EBII in your sig the trans control is integral with the EEC.

Yes, converted EBII. So the EL ecu may be having a problem. The only non-standard things i can think of in the wiring to the ecu are:
a) the aftermarket dual fuel system. there is actually a problem with this at present whereby petrol is being injected when running on lpg. this problem wasn't happenning before i did the conversion. the lpg is also stalling under braking but that may be an inlet issue.
b) the knock sensor and bbm vacuum solinoid switch are tapped into the positive ignition supply to the ecu.
c) the smartlock bypass module.
d) the thermo fan relay triggers are powered from the battery rather than the ignition.

Of course there could also be a problem in the wiring from the ecu to the trans. Can't think of why and haven't noticed anything, but could do a visual inspection, and maybe multimeter stuff too but seems real complex looking at the repair manual.

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:26 pm 
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Steady ED wrote:
Are you checking fluid level with the engine running and trans in park? No drive generally means low fluid.

I checked in park (engine running, warm trans) and it was the same, perfect fluid level.

Quote:
If this is the EBII in your sig the trans control is integral with the EEC.

Armed with this info i swapped back to my EB ecu. Bingo, it seemed to start in first but then went into third and stayed there no matter what i did, unless i shifted manually, in which case i could access first, second and third only. Is this LHM?

Based on my current limited knowledge maybe the problem is the speedo sender? [since my wreck was shifting normally, despite the speedo being dead, maybe it's sender is in fact fine, so i might try that in the good EB?]

 

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