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squealing BTR 4 speed... 

 

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 Post subject: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:07 pm 
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My 2002 BA Fairmont's transmission emmits a whistling sound when under load (under hard acceleration or when reversing uphill. It occurs in 1st/2nd gears). When reversing, the gearbox makes a sound like a spring stretching when the engine/trans is cold. Any ideas? Ford recons everthing is fine, and the trans fluid has been changed. The noises are still occuring. The car has 110,000 on the clock...
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:23 pm 
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Hmm, it sounds like your car is doing exactly what mine does, only when the transmission is stone cold and only within the first few metres of driving either forwards or reversing. There is a slight whine but only for a few seconds. If you find out what it is, let us know!
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:58 pm 
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sounds like the pump is gone.
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:11 pm 
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ba2002 wrote:
My 2002 BA Fairmont's transmission emmits a whistling sound when under load (under hard acceleration or when reversing uphill. It occurs in 1st/2nd gears). When reversing, the gearbox makes a sound like a spring stretching when the engine/trans is cold. Any ideas? Ford recons everthing is fine, and the trans fluid has been changed. The noises are still occuring. The car has 110,000 on the clock...


The pump on the BA trans has half the pumping capacity than the earlier BTR. When the oil is cold & thick with the transmission in the lower gears, The noise you are hearing is probably the pump working at maximum capacity. Why did they change the design of the pump? - good question!

The EA - AU transmission was made by BTR

The BA - onwards transmission was made by ION

When ION took over the BTR 93 design, They changed the pump design (The pump gears are half as thick as the BTR's - half the pumping capacity) The selector shaft is on the opposite side of the box + There is no speedo gear on the output shaft - It gets it's speedo reading from the ABS sensors + a slightly different valvebody.
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:43 pm 
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I went through this exact same thing with my transmission doctor, he showed me the three different pumps that have come to exist in the Ford four speed auto's. And you're dead right xpvanman, the Ion trans oil pump is half, if not a third of the capacity of the old BTR pumps. This was done by Ion, i believe, to reduce 'drag' on the driveline and one of the many ways to improve (or hinder) fuel efficiency. From what i have seen and what has been explained to me, the ultimate Ford four speed auto will be the EL 93LE with an early EA 85LE oil pump. The BA 93LE's just seem so fragile in comparison :x
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:03 am 
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xpvanman wrote:
...The selector shaft is on the opposite side of the box + There is no speedo gear on the output shaft - It gets it's speedo reading from the ABS sensors + a slightly different valvebody.


Actually, just to add mind you, the ute column-shift (93LE) and V8 (95LE) versions of the transmission have the shift cable and linkage on the drivers side of the gearbox as opposed to the cable being installed on the passender side of the six cylinder sedan and wagon variants. Also (mainly utes) that did not have ABS as an option had an output shaft speed sensor in the extension housing also (for some reason) had the old planetary a*** as there is a difference in the output shaft diameter between ABS and non-ABS transmissions, PLUS the internal wiring harness in the BA 93/95LE's earth the solenoids through the the loom itsself as apposed to being earthed through the case in the earlier 93/95LE's, which is the problem i had when trying to get my original gearbox to talk with a BA ECU :x
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:18 pm 
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Yes, If only they kept using the original EA BTR metal shift solenoids throughout the different models instead of changing to the plastic ones that always leak off pressure.

EB - ED V8's had the BTR 95
EF - AU V8's had the BTR 97

BTR's are also in those Ssangyong Musso 4WD's...
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:31 pm 
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You don't build transmissions for a living by any chance do you xpvanman?

If someone were to build up a 'performance' 93LE, which parts from which transmissions would we use? From what i gather, these would be on the list:

-EL casing and planetary a***, valve body etc.
-EA 85LE metal solenoids
-EA 85LE oil pump

Anything else? Also, are there any 'performance' upgrade clutch and band material?

I'm really getting into these transmissions now, so much so that i have scored a second hand box which i may strip down and attempt to rebuild myself :shock: I'd love to try and find some literature and diagrams of the guts of these things.
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:41 am 
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The EA 85 solenoids won't fit in the 93 valvebody - The "nose" of the solenoids that fits into the valvebody is too small for the 93.

If i was going to build a performance 6cyl BTR, I'd be using the BTR 95 as a basis.

The geartrain on the 95 is a lot bigger & meatier than the 93,They come with the metal solenoid valve body(unless somebody has swapped it) + they have a dipstick & external band adjustments so you can actually adjust them when you service it.

Swap the planetary ring gear over to a BTR85 output shaft & extension housing ( The 95 V8 ones are longer than the 6cyl 85) Fit a steel C2 hub (The original is cast iron & is prone to break) New later design C1 & C2 clutch pistons, Update S5 damper valve & spring + fit an adjustable AU S5 solenoid & retaining bracket. Use the BTR 85 convertor & a 6cyl bellhousing.

"Raybestos" used to make a performance friction capsule & "Transtek" makes a "taxipack" gasket seal & ring kit - They come with viton seals instead of rubber,which is more resistant to heat.
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Thanks for that info xpvanman.

Just a few Q

What parts are meatier on the 95 compared to the 93. I always thought the V8 and 6 internals were pretty much the same.

Steel C2 hub. Were these on the EB onwards

Later design C1 and C2. Are you referring to EF onwards.

Fordman351, there is a mod where you disconnect the solenoid 3 and solenoid 4. It makes the transmission shift heaps quicker and saves the bands and cluches from burning out.(These solenoids are there for nice soft shifts.) There is a thread somewhere posting exactly how to do it and will try to dig it up.

Turning up the S5 helps but disconnecting the S3 and S4 basically eliminates the need for an S5 but the shifts are pretty hard. If you have a programable EMS then you can make it shift hard under load only.
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:45 pm 
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maddog wrote:
Thanks for that info xpvanman.

Just a few Q

What parts are meatier on the 95 compared to the 93. I always thought the V8 and 6 internals were pretty much the same.

Steel C2 hub. Were these on the EB onwards

Later design C1 and C2. Are you referring to EF onwards.

Fordman351, there is a mod where you disconnect the solenoid 3 and solenoid 4. It makes the transmission shift heaps quicker and saves the bands and cluches from burning out.(These solenoids are there for nice soft shifts.) There is a thread somewhere posting exactly how to do it and will try to dig it up.

Turning up the S5 helps but disconnecting the S3 and S4 basically eliminates the need for an S5 but the shifts are pretty hard. If you have a programable EMS then you can make it shift hard under load only.


The clutch drums & the amount of frictions etc are the same but the V8 a*** has more teeth on it - The primary & secondary sun gears that run inside the planetary are a lot wider. If you get them side by side on a bench to compare, you will see the difference.

Some EB's still had the old C2 hub. The easiest way of telling if is the old hub, Where the splines of it go into the C3 clutch,If it has splines the full length to the base - it is the cast iron hub. If it has a 3mm gap machined before it meets the base - It is the later steel hub.

The later C1 & C2 pistons have a rolled edge where the inner piston o-ring sits. It is a lot thicker & stronger there than the the earlier square-edged piston that tend to crack in this area, resulting in a burnt out clutch. If you like to "stall it up" - always replace the C2 (forward drive clutch) piston when you rebuild BTR's. This is the clutch that cops the punishment when you stall up.
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:16 pm 
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seeingst we're OT, i have another question :)

Im having problems with an EL ECU running an EBII transmission. symptoms include clunking into 2nd and an odd downshift from cruise on light throttle that feels like 4-2-3-2. With the EB ECU, everything is fine. Any ideas if mechanical differences between the two transmissions might be confusing the ECU? Some people on there reckon they've done the conversion fine but im having a lot of trouble. More info post940419.html.

Cheers,
Jason
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 Post subject: Re: squealing BTR 4 speed...
Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:53 pm 
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You're my hero xpvanman, all this transmission talk is turning me on :D

I did read on another forum about the whole disconnecting or switching of the two solenoids for BA-BF's, but i never did find a 'how to' on how to do it.
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