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T5 Manual Conversion will not start 

 

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 Post subject: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:07 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Hey all,

Completed an Auto to manual conversion on my Sep92 Fairmont EBII. Basically it's the craziest of things.... My smartlock has never properly functioned to my knowledge. I have never seen the LED on the left of my knee light up since I have had the car, which is over 3 years now. The car always worked fine, Cruise control turns on and off, auto wasn't too bad for a s**t box.

I have touched no wiring in the dash, so somebody has done some dodgey brothers stuff to do with the Smartlock I believe. They have cut and rerouted a few wires into a relay which is hanging there and there is some sort of little black box with a circuit board inside which is and has always been hanging loose. I have no idea if this is a bypass board or what not?

Anyways pulled apart the dash and installed a pedal box, clutch and transmission all from EA Falcon. I semi rebuilt the transmission, pulled it apart and cleaned with chemicals all bearings and moving parts and regreased the bearings and replaced 1 that was sounding grindy still and had a bit of heat marks on the runner. Also I ordered an EBII/ED Falcon Manual Pre-Tuned to factory J3 chip from T.I. Performance. I removed the CPU and cleaned the terminals with light sandpaper and cleaning products to ensure a good contact could be made with the chip.

Now for the werid... I go to turn the car on... Can't remember if it was 1 or 2 but the ignition made the hazard lights come on repeatadly flashing, including the led warning lamp for the smartlock... WHICH HAS NEVER WORKED!? After trying a few times this stopped happening and I thought it was going to work... but just doesnt do nething...

0 - Everything is off... NO warning lamp on the Smartlock
1 - Accessories come on, checked everything working
2 - Can hear the normal whirling engadgeing sound the fuel pump or whatever makes before startup, still all accessories are functioning correctly.
3 - Nothing, BUT i can hear the starter relay in the fuse box thingy clicking on when I turn the key. I took out the relay and replaced it with one with the same code labelled on the front and made no difference. If you have ever tryed to start an auto in gear, that's basically what I feel is happening.

I have checked all fuses, and globes throughout the car. I have a multimeter if anybody has any idea of voltages to test? Also checked all earths and seem to be fine.

So basically the car has the orginal auto ECU w/J3 chip EBII/ED Manual overide, and I have connected the actual manual loom from an EA which seems to be the same from a EB (from transmission to engine bay connector). The round auto plug is sitting in the engine bay as was, unconnected to anything.

The only things I can think:
- Wrong Pre-Program on the J3 Chip.
- Smartlock was disabled? no idea how? but installing a chip with it enabled messed up the system.
- Car doesnt love me anymore... :( >>>----<3----> (an arrow going through my heart!)

*Get's down on hands and knees and prays to the fordmod gods*
Please help me!

Cheers, Tim.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:11 pm 
Technical Contributor
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BCM has died.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:43 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I think... that the previous owner has installed a Smartlock bypass, I have now got the engine to crank over from the starter motor but there doesnt seem to be any fireing, which im guessing is the fuel injectors being restricted from the ECU?

Basically I set back up the (what i think is) "smartlock bypass" which I think one of the wires broke off from me dropping the steering shaft during the whole conversion process. What seems to be happening is this "smartlock bypass" is allowing the starter relay... or something to be clicked as soon as i connect the battery (even with no keys in ignition), BUT it still is restricting the fuel injectors. I guess this eliminates the bashing of the BEM or w.e ppl are always talking about hitting.

Currently I have left my keys in the ignition on 2 with the accessories all off. My understanding is that the BEM or ECU will try and read the new codes from the key. Because of the J3 chip having new codes to the OEM ECU.... I think... All speculation, gonna see if it starts in 1 hr from when I put the keys to 2.

Cheers, Tim.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:11 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
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Ride: EL Fairmont, VFR400 racer

Power: 144 rwkw

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Have you tried starting it without the J3 chip? Also neutral switch connected or resistor trick?

 

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EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:55 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I have tried starting the car with and without the chip, both get the same result. I have tried the auto and manual loom (rectangle plug w/speedo, neutral and reverse switches) with the neutral switch wires connected so that it thinks it's in neutral. So anyway, this is as it stands now.

I have got a black box with a chip inside that I'm going to get and find a serial or something to search for on google to confirm that it is some sort of bypass device. As far as I can tell it definately is being connected from the ignition wiring.

The Motor is definately cranking and starter motor sounds fine until the battery started dying and I had to recharge it.
I have Not got a spark coming from the Plugs.
I have got Fuel pumping... and well... lol yum yums :roll:

SO ... I'm thinking I have to pull off the fuel rail and get my missus to try the keys again, see if she is actually spraying fuel vapours from the injectors.

If this is happening I'm going to assume that something is wrong with the Distributor, which I did not touch and have not got experience dealing with, any pointers or feeback would be appreciated.

Back to work next week isn't going to be easy without a car...! 8-)

Cheers, Tim.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:16 pm 
Fordmods Junkie
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Ride: EL Fairmont, VFR400 racer

Power: 144 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

If you can get your hands on a spare coil, swap it over and give that a shot. A dead TFI module could also be the culprit, but I'd try the coil first, easier to replace.

I had a coil problem once. The car would start fine until I had to replace the power steering stuff in my car. Pulled the lead off the coil to get the car rotating without starting (to test out power steering pump), plugged the lead back on the coil after I finished with everything and the car wouldn't start. Put a spare coil on and it started first go.

 

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phongus = Post whore 2006
EL XR6 motor, EL ECU + J3 chip, WADE 1673 Camshaft, 3" S/S intake, Pacy 4480, 2.5" Hi flow cat, 2.5" Lukey exhaust.
Max Power = 144.6 rwkw (03/05/2008)

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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:38 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Thankyou phongus, it's good to hear that this might be the problem, it was the next thing on my list to check, i found a good site to test the TFI and coil.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/TFI_Diagnostic.html

If anybody is interested. Fingers crossed that it just shat itself all of a sudden and I can go get another and install manifold back on and she's good to go! :mrgreen:

Cheers, Tim.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:46 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: Adelaide
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The ignition coil seems to test fine 7.6k ohmns and 0.6 ohmns and infinity to ground. I went to a wreckers a got a TFI module and Distributor for a good price with a warranty. Just waiting on the battery to charge up and I am good to go.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:27 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Well I installed the new TFI and Distributor and a 2nd hand smartlock unit. As soon as I connect up the battery the LED is flashing very fast on and off, which I'm pretty sure is immobilised code. Also when I open the doors, turn the key or almost anything, the hazard lights flash for about 30 seconds. I've tried to reset the smartlock codes to bring it out of immbilised mode... Just doesnt seem to work...
If I turn the key to RUN position it does nothing. All fuses and lamps and eveything basically works/runs fine...

Any suggestions?

Cheers, Tim.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:52 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EB1 Fairmont Ghia T5 Wagon

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OK. A couple of questions.

Does your car have remote central locking?

If it does, then it actually has smartlock fitted.

I ask as Sept 92 was when the first of the smartlock cars were introduced. It is entirely possible that you own a pre smartlock car.

This would also be in keeping with there being a smartlock bypass module fitted, as if the previous owner installed a smartlock enabled ECU it requires the bypass module to work.

The sure way to establish if it is a smartlock car is to check for the smartlock module above the handbrake handle. It will be a red/orange colour. There were also some yellow ones in ED models.

I personally have had a smartlock bypass module die on me after a few years use. This is also a possiblity. Do you have a ECU you no is definitely a pre smartlock ECU?. I was able to run my car on the original EB1 ECU when my EL ECU wouldn't work due to the bypass module failing. Was very difficult to diagnose. Had no spark or injectors firing, but it would crank.

I wait for your reply.

I am happy to chat to you tonight if you want. PM me for my mobile number.

Cheers
BenJ

 

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My respect and thanks go to - snap0964, Paulmac, SWC and MRE-50L

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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:30 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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I Definately got Central Locking.. But I don't know if i have "remote" cause i havnt ever had a keypad, nor tried one. I know that I have a green BCM box. But I thought that was it...? Is there a second one for smartlock? If so, I got the Smartlock version J3 Chip. I wonder if my car will run properly with the non-smartlock J3 chip.

I will check up on the model of EEC and double check that I don't have a second bcm or smartlock installed somewhere.

Your a legend BenJ,

Cheers, Tim.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EB1 Fairmont Ghia T5 Wagon

Location: Seven Hills, Sydney
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TimmyAussie wrote:
I Definately got Central Locking.. But I don't know if i have "remote" cause i havnt ever had a keypad, nor tried one. I know that I have a green BCM box. But I thought that was it...? Is there a second one for smartlock? If so, I got the Smartlock version J3 Chip. I wonder if my car will run properly with the non-smartlock J3 chip.

I will check up on the model of EEC and double check that I don't have a second bcm or smartlock installed somewhere.

Your a legend BenJ,

Cheers, Tim.


OK, the green BCM is the Body Control Module, and in the EB it is a separate box from the Smartlock Module.

The Smartlock module does two things.

1st, it allows for remote central locking, and remote boot release. This is separate from the next bit.

2nd, it is part of the security to help prevent theft. When you turn the key there is a code ring in the key barrel. It sends a signal to the Smartlock module which then sends the code to the ECU telling it that all is good in the world and it should start.

Smartlock modules are known to have issues, but, first things first.

In your case the next step in sorting out your issues, is to check if you do, or don't, have a Smartlock module in the car. Once that is established we can move on from there.

Cheers
BenJ

 

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BenJ's EB T5 DOHC Ghia Wagon - Current Ride
BenJ's EB GL Sedan - Previous Ride
My respect and thanks go to - snap0964, Paulmac, SWC and MRE-50L

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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:55 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Ok, Bottom left of the Instrument Cluster is where the Smartlock "should" be? Nothing there... And now that you mention it I do recall seeing at the wreckers a red similar looking unit to a bcm sitting in this spot.

Cheers, Tim.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:25 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: NL FAIRLANE BA TURBO POWERED

Location: ballarat
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Do you have to bridge the neutral safety switch shen you do these conversions? Just a thought

Steve
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 Post subject: Re: T5 Manual Conversion will not start
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:28 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: BF XR6,

Location: NEWCASTLE
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i do recall reading a thread on boosted a few days ago about a bloke puttin a manual in his el and it wouldnt start, he played around with the wiring and it went, i think he needed to know if it needed to be bridged or not, ill have a sticky beack and come back

 

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