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Throwing her rear out 

 

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 Post subject: Throwing her rear out
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:18 am 
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any of you guys having the same problem , the lane is stepping out sideways to the right with wheel spin on the 1-2 shift , i know cars torque steer ,but trailing arm rear suspention normally does not do this to such a degree , all bushes nolathane and in new condition

you guys draging getting the same problem????

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:31 am 
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Front wheel drivers torque steer. Rear wheel drivers step out due to wheel spin...... I know it's semantics, but not really the same thing. Torque steer is limited to FWD'rs.

On to the point at hand tho.......

If your both your wheels start to spin (as they should if your lane is fitted with a LSD centre) and there is no camber on the road at all and no steering input at all, then your car will most likely step out to the right.

It's normal.....you'll just need to deal with it! Just be thankful that your not getting shocking axle tramp as a lot of falcons do!

If you don't want it to do it, get off the loud pedal! :D

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:05 pm 
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paul, chuck some 225 16" stockies on the rear, and just slam the accelerator down. nothing like spinning all of 2nd (when already rolling lol)
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:58 pm 
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philaddis wrote:
If your both your wheels start to spin (as they should if your lane is fitted with a LSD centre) and there is no camber on the road at all and no steering input at all, then your car will most likely step out to the right.


why is that? i've never heard of that before

and to the question, buy better tyres or be nicer on the accelerator

 

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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:59 pm 
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interesting answers but the torque steer im talking about is the engine movement trying to lift the front left tyre of the ground pushing the right rear low , tyres are fine etc, what i was looking for is there any known suspesion settings or model changes that may be the problem or fix.

as far as backing off the loud pedal, thats not what i want to do, if anything lets go harder, by the way this stepout is at about 2 thirds throtle

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:55 am 
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Quote:
If your both your wheels start to spin (as they should if your lane is fitted with a LSD centre) and there is no camber on the road at all and no steering input at all, then your car will most likely step out to the right.

thats utter bullshet. it should pull left if anything because of the watts linkages. they were designed to step left because of the predominantly left hand bends at bathurst, ie more control for the majority of the track.

its harder to get a falcon to step right than left. not impossible just harder.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:01 pm 
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More Grunt wrote:
thats utter bullshet. it should pull left if anything because of the watts linkages. they were designed to step left because of the predominantly left hand bends at bathurst, ie more control for the majority of the track.

its harder to get a falcon to step right than left. not impossible just harder.


Oh sorry Mr Aggressive..... but not too sure about that.... we may just have to agree to disagree I think.

Nothing to do with Bathurst tho.... that's ridiculous. It's not a sprint car for crying out loud. How many NC Fairlanes have you seen racing at Bathurst anyway?

Physics is physics...... It is all to do with rotation of drivetrain and torque.... I was merely saying that it is not referred to as 'torque steer' in a RWD'r.

It's not difficult to get the rear to step out to the right at all.... as soon as any right to left downward camber is on the road, or there is any LH down steering input, the rear will step out to the right.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:08 pm 
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Normally the right wheel receives more power due to the rotation of the driveshaft and diff setup, in a SS diff.
I'd assume that it'd be the same in a LSD, but I dont know how this would contribute to the car stepping right all the time.

I have no problems kicking the back end of my car left or right, theres no difference in effort required.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Theories on suspension geometry and rotational forces aside, they almost always kick right, in my experience.
This experience is gathered from many practical tests.

I don't understand the thread, if it's losing traction, what do you expect it to do?
Name any LSD equipped car in the world, if it loses traction generally it's going to kick one way or the other.

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:24 pm 
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i have a manual ef falcon with a lsd. it kicked hard both ways when the lsd was fresh but now when turning right the inside wheel just wants to spin. lsd diffs stiil a crown wheel think of it as L - R 40% - 60 %. solve all problems mini spool. kicks both ways just as hard. and someone mentioned axle tramp, ive never had a problem with it, except in reverse

 

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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:52 pm 
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I don't think about this much, but i'll have a go.

I think the torque applied through the driveshaft to the rear axle presses the left rear into the ground more and lightens the right rear. This means the left rear gets more traction and the right rear gets less traction. Since the left rear is getting more drive, especially so after the right rear has broken static friction, there would be a slight effect of steering the car to the right.

If, however, the trailing link bushes were worn, there would be another effect whereby the extra drive on the left side would push the axle further forward on that side, effectively skewing the axle and creating a mild rear steering effect. This would skew the rear out to the right like a boat and thereby steer the car to the left. Since the bushes on the car are near-new nolathane this ought be insignificant.

If the watts link has perfect geometry it would not create a sideways effect. It's possible however, for instance, that they compromised on the lower body mount to reduce the chance of it hitting the ground. Any sideways effect created by the watts link would occur under rear squat, and would be increased by a hot motor and grippy tyres (more squat), and reduced by h/d coils and shocks (less squat).

 

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