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XG Ute T5, What Type? 

 

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 Post subject: XG Ute T5, What Type?
Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:12 pm 
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anyone know what T5 comes stock in a XG ute?
as in, EA type with the rattle reverse?
or are they the EB2-ED series?

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:22 pm 
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They are the later ones. Whats this with the "rattles in reverse"?
My 88EA doesn't "rattle" in reverse.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:30 pm 
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rattles.... my bad.
The revised Reverse setup to prevent the idler gear spinning when in netural.

so I take it the XG is EB+ with a 4.0 (engine) 1st gear ratio?

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:45 pm 
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Yes, 3.25:1 first gear ratio. To stop the reverse idler spinning in nuetral, I just put it in 1st, then reverse, always have done with any manual box. I think the XG utes have a 3.27:1 diff ratio.

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:45 pm 
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Krytox wrote:
rattles.... my bad.
The revised Reverse setup to prevent the idler gear spinning when in netural.
No, it slows down the countergear, so the reverse idler can engage it (both are straight cut). The reverse synchro ring is identical to the 5th speed synchro.

Krytox wrote:
so I take it the XG is EB+ with a 4.0 1st gear ratio?
3.25:1 as per the later g/boxes.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:08 am 
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Ray,

once again solved a query!


cheers

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:16 am 
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NP Andrew.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:48 pm 
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snap0964 wrote:
Krytox wrote:
rattles.... my bad.
The revised Reverse setup to prevent the idler gear spinning when in netural.
No, it slows down the countergear, so the reverse idler can engage it (both are straight cut). The reverse synchro ring is identical to the 5th speed synchro.

Krytox wrote:
so I take it the XG is EB+ with a 4.0 1st gear ratio?
3.25:1 as per the later g/boxes.



I have just looked at my parts fische and found no synchro for reverse.
If you start the car, in nuetral, foot OFF the clutch, then depress clutch pedal and select reverse straight away, it will grind. Try it and see.
Thats why I always select 1st then reverse, this stops everything spinning around.
Reverse gears, all 3 of them, have straight cut gears, with spurs pointed to give easy engagement. The have been made like this for, what, 80+ years now.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:51 pm 
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cjh wrote:
I have just looked at my parts fische and found no synchro for reverse.
If you're looking at the XF-EA version, then all you'll find is a 3 spoke plate at the countergear rear - EBII and later have a synchro ring which fits on a brake cone, which provides friction to slow the countergear down. I've checked clearance between the ring and cone before assembling this type of g/box - and a 5th gear ring will replace it as it's the same.
cjh wrote:
If you start the car, in nuetral, foot OFF the clutch, then depress clutch pedal and select reverse straight away, it will grind. Try it and see.Thats why I always select 1st then reverse, this stops everything spinning around.
I've used this many a time myself - the later boxes will sometimes baulk, and you still can get a crunch - slowing down a heavy countergear at speed is a tall order for this setup to do.
cjh wrote:
Reverse gears, all 3 of them, have straight cut gears, with spurs pointed to give easy engagement. The have been made like this for, what, 80+ years now.
And the EA & later boxes, the components you describe are the same, so are interchangeable - the teeth number on the countergear are the same, however the countergear and input shaft need to be installed as a set.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:27 pm 
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The thing your talking about is not a synchro setup, its an anti-rollover noise suspression component. Heaps of jap boxes have this too. My 88EA has this. It is spring loaded to keep a nice quiet mesh with the other gear.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:37 pm 
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heh, sorry about the tennis match going on here.

I've spent most of the day researching T5's and have found there are a lot of variables with clusters and syncro's

I found this a quick rundown on the box I have:

(from another site)

Fifth gear synchro and tailhousing variations:
One of the common complaints about the T5 is the lack of a synchronizer while shifting into reverse. Borg-
Warner made an attempt in mid-’92 to relieve the grinding by piggy-backing a synchronizer and blocker assembly
on the fifth gear synchro. The attempt was to slow the cluster gear a bit to allow easier reverse idler gear
engagement, but the ‘fix’ was only marginally successful. While the synchro assemblies can fit on any cluster,
the tailhousings cannot (they are not forward compatible: you can use an old synchro with a new housing, but you
cannot use an old housing with a new synchro).
In the above photo, the late style fifth synchro is shown, with early style below it. Note the late version with the
second brass blocker, the conical ‘washer’ (w/tab), and the internally-tabbed washer (locks into cluster splines),
all of which replace the stamped sheetmetal insert keeper of the early style. All of the other parts are the same. In
order to attempt to slow the cluster, the ‘tab’ on the conical ‘washer’ has to mate to a feature in the tailhousing.

So as it turns out the box I pulled out this morning from a Sept 95' XG ute was a WC T5 (Late model with 3.25 1st) as I was after.

There are heaps or rebuild pages on the net and identification markings I should have researched before asking!

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:44 pm 
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Well, my parts fische doesn't show this synchro your on about. It is genuine ford. The only different bits are for 6cyl and various V8 bits.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:12 pm 
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ok, i've stripped it down,
I can see there is no actual syncro on the revers idler but there is a syncro on the rear.
so theres 5th syncro and also a syncro on the reverse for the layshaft to 'slow it down b4 engaging the straight cut gear.

other than that im very impressed with the endplay (bugger all) and theres no visible marks on any gear.

note the rear syncro

 

 

Attachments:
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:17 pm 
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Krytox wrote:
I've spent most of the day researching T5's and have found there are a lot of variables with clusters and syncro's I found this a quick rundown on the box I have:
Some good info there Andrew.

cjh wrote:
The thing your talking about is not a synchro setup, its an anti-rollover noise suspression component. Heaps of jap boxes have this too. My 88EA has this. It is spring loaded to keep a nice quiet mesh with the other gear.
Even though it runs a synchro ring, it isn't a synchoniser - it's a brake. On write ups, it is commonly referred to as that.

cjh wrote:
Well, my parts fische doesn't show this synchro your on about. It is genuine ford. The only different bits are for 6cyl and various V8 bits.
I suggest you view some parts breakdowns from an EA and later E series shop manuals.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:20 pm 
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So wheres the synchro for reverse then? Have you tried what i said in previous post about selecting reverse?
Need a better pic than that.
Like at the end of the lay shaft.

 

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