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Stalling on LPG 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:27 pm 
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jao wrote:
Plus I have been suggested that its advisable to run on one kind of fuel only as much as possible. So I usually run on gas and hardly ever switch to petrol. This is sensible since spark plug and engine faces a completely different fuel so switching should be minimized.
Its been 4 months and i do not have single problem with my gas.

Hope it helps someone.



BAD IDEA, Not using petrol will quickly cause the petrol system to fail. You need to use it and you need to keep at least 1/4 tank of fresh fuel. Or next time you need it, it won't work and will cost $$$$ to get fixed.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:36 pm 
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James84 wrote:
SV-Valiant wrote:
moreton wrote:
Had similar problems, my new mechanic says, duel fuel set-ups, you either have good on petrol or good on gas, having both good will cost you a lot more money, he says pick the set -up / tune you need most. You can't have everything?


I disagree I run mine on both petrol and LPG and they run fine on both I lose a little power on LPG but that's all, So if your mechanic says it cant run fine on both change mechanics.

Alan


i agree with moreton.

normal ULP has a octane rating of 91, but LPG has an octane rating of 100+?
yeah, you can have both so they run fine, but you'll never have both running perfectly.


I agree with SV-Valiant.

My AU runs flawlessly on both fuels. same economy on petrol as it had before the conversion And as it seems excellent economy on LPG. No flat spots hesitations or problems at all.
LPG will make less power as it contains less energy and runs at leaner AFRs.

People that can't get it right either have the wrong parts fitted or can't tune.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:53 pm 
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I realise this topic seems to have been abandoned a while ago, but here are my two cents after having to research a similar issue:

If you are having LPG issues after about 100km driving, consider the following parts:

Inlet manifold. Make sure its tight and that it has a good gasket fitted. That will cause icing issues.

Vacuum tube from the Inlet Manifold to the MAP sensor on the driver-side firewall. Check that it hasn't blown off or is leaking

Check your converter fluid.

Check you have an LPG thermostat fitted properly.

Those should cover most common issues beyond the usual bleeding/flushing advice.
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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:45 pm 
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I have realised that cranking start on lpg takes longer on AU Falcon (dual fuel). Noticed that if I turn on the battery and then start, it starts a bit better even then cranking time is still higher than usual.
Any Idea how to make it better without screwing up anything?
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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:57 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Ride: 2002 AUII Fairlane Sportsman V8

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check/fix the following...

1) Breather Hose - there's a hose that runs from the back of the LPG converter to the air box (make sure its connected & make sure there are NO hole's in the hose).

2) ICS - A dirty/fowled Idle Control Solenoid will produce a stalling effect on most falcons. Remove & clean thoroughly with throttle body cleaner.

3) Thermostat - The LPG converter needs hot water to turn the gas into liquid.

4) Spark Plug Gaps. The spark plug gaps need to be around 0.9mm apart for correct LPG combustion.

5) Leads - Faulty/Old leads won't carry enough electricity to the spark plug to discharge the correct amount of spark.

6) Intake system - Make sure there are NO air leaks on the intake system. Too much air will cause backfiring of the LPG system & more than likely blow the system up. EF owners i suggest converting to EL/AU intake system. You only need the piping from the throttle body to the air box lid. You can still keep the same air box & lid.

These are what i have found to be of concern when dealing with LPG issue's. If all these items above are in good working order then your LPG system should be 100% OK.

A faulty coil pack is also usually the cause of issue's however this will be felt in both LPG & petrol modes.

If anyone else care's to add to this list please do so.
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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:47 am 
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Tommy Mik wrote:
Hey guys just wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar to this before.. About 6 months ago i got my ef fairmont dual fuelled and all was good, but over the past month or so it keeps stalling on me. Like say i was coming to a roundabout and coming down gears the revs would just completely drop off and stall. Then it wont restart on LPG, so i have to flick it on to petrol quickly. But then if i leave it overnight, and start on lpg in the morning all will be good. Then a few days later it will do the same thing again. Iv taken it back to the place i got the system installed 3 times and he says all he can do is adjust the mixtures and see how it goes.
Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers - Tom

(BTW - Its a lovato system)


Check the lock off. Sometmes they loosen up and when driving around they rattle tight and loose. From the heat, the seal between the lock off and converter if it's installed on there can increase and decrease.

It might not be it but just another thing to cross off the list.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:01 pm 
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Check the spark plug gap. I had this issue for long time as well. Even though different things may have been wrong on your system. But I guess its a good idea to check with spark plug gaps (ideally 0.9 mm)
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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:07 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Quote:
Check the lock off. Sometmes they loosen up and when driving around they rattle tight and loose. From the heat, the seal between the lock off and converter if it's installed on there can increase and decrease.

It might not be it but just another thing to cross off the list.

+1 for that idea. definitely this is a good chance. Also the lock of valve on the gas tank might get stuck as well. My sister's EF tickford factory gas had this issue. We changed everything & i mean everything under the hood & the problem still persisted. It was the valve getting stuck which the solenoid opens & closes. For some reason a little bit of CRC fixed it all up.
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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:40 pm 
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jao wrote:
Check the spark plug gap. I had this issue for long time as well. Even though different things may have been wrong on your system. But I guess its a good idea to check with spark plug gaps (ideally 0.9 mm)


Spark plugs wont make it stall like that. Gap is important but you wont run and then stall just because of gaps

 

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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:24 am 
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Ride: 97 EL Falcon

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Hey Guys,

Im new to the forum!! Ive got a 97 EL on duel fuel and having the same troubles of stalling or almost stalling on hard braking. The issue only happens when on GAS not petrol.

Any ideas??

Ben
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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:08 pm 
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paul09 wrote:
Same problem here, I also stalled at like 20kmh going round a corner and nearly hit a pole due to power steering cutting out.

Except mine also epicly backfires whenever I accelerate from idle(mum said she heard loud bangs and 'some hoon idiot' revving their engine heaps for about 5 mins before I actually got home lol). And it idles at under 100rpm - entire car vibrates violently, and usually when it backfires it will also stall.

Also it's blowing a f**k of black smoke when running on petrol but doesn't stall as

If there is only black, smoke on petrol its unburnt fuel and your map sensor vacuum hose has probably come unplugged from either the manifold or the map sensor itself. ( on the cars firewall much or backfire, on LPG it backfires and stalls but no black smoke...

Best part, I had the gas system tuned/serviced this morning and problem started afterwards, but it was working fine in their workshop...


If there is only black, smoke on petrol its unburnt fuel and your map sensor vacuum hose has probably come unplugged from either the manifold or the map sensor itself. ( on the cars firewall behind the intake manifold.) That wouldn't be affecting your gas running though.. perhaps you need a new or re-co converter, but if it was me I'd get it running perfectly on petrol first and then fix the gas so you can eliminate non LPG related faults.

 

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Last edited by frankieh on Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:19 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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liquidlime wrote:
Hey Guys,

Im new to the forum!! Ive got a 97 EL on duel fuel and having the same troubles of stalling or almost stalling on hard braking. The issue only happens when on GAS not petrol.

Any ideas??

Ben
check/fix the following...

1) Breather Hose - there's a hose that runs from the back of the LPG converter to the air box (make sure its connected & make sure there are NO hole's in the hose).

2) ICS - A dirty/fowled Idle Control Solenoid will produce a stalling effect on most falcons. Remove & clean thoroughly with throttle body cleaner.

3) Thermostat - The LPG converter needs hot water to turn the gas into liquid.

4) Spark Plug Gaps. The spark plug gaps need to be around 0.9mm apart for correct LPG combustion.

5) Leads - Faulty/Old leads won't carry enough electricity to the spark plug to discharge the correct amount of spark.

6) Intake system - Make sure there are NO air leaks on the intake system. Too much air will cause backfiring of the LPG system & more than likely blow the system up. EF owners i suggest converting to EL/AU intake system. You only need the piping from the throttle body to the air box lid. You can still keep the same air box & lid.

These are what i have found to be of concern when dealing with LPG issue's. If all these items above are in good working order then your LPG system should be 100% OK.

A faulty coil pack is also usually the cause of issue's however this will be felt in both LPG & petrol modes.
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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:20 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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984.OEL wrote:
MadMatt wrote:
SV-Valiant wrote:
moreton wrote:
Had similar problems, my new mechanic says, duel fuel set-ups, you either have good on petrol or good on gas, having both good will cost you a lot more money, he says pick the set -up / tune you need most. You can't have everything?


I disagree I run mine on both petrol and LPG and they run fine on both I lose a little power on LPG but that's all, So if your mechanic says it cant run fine on both change mechanics.

Alan

Mine runs fine on both and has power on both.


i agree.. mine runs great on both fuels, only a touch less power on gas, and a tiny stutter on petrol when i try to hold steady on 110-20k's, plus i have occasional backfires on lpg; i'm convinced it's a timing issue(no vacuum leaks that i can spot, all new hi-po leads...)..need a full service now anyway so will get them to up the timing a touch....


The EL's ECU controls fine tuning of the timing.. so unless the base timing is way out it will tidy it up for you all by self... put the car in diag mode (put a female blade terminal over top and bottom far left terminals of the diag block in the fuse box.) and then check your timing after letting it idle for a few minutes (over 2 at least) on the front of the engine with a timing light.. if they match up and your ECU has no issues, it will handle the rest for you.. putting the timing light on while the ECU is not in diag mode will not work as the ECU will have moved the timing itself and it won't line up.

 

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BA XR6T, CSA Shaker 18" rims, no middle muffler, 3inch cat, 2nd intake pipe, JTG liquid gas injection and 16 PSI tune.
New Hobby, I rebuild BA & BF Falcon and SX & SY Territory ignition / steering columns in Perth, PM me.

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 Post subject: Re: Stalling on LPG
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:49 am 
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liquidlime wrote:
Hey Guys,

Im new to the forum!! Ive got a 97 EL on duel fuel and having the same troubles of stalling or almost stalling on hard braking. The issue only happens when on GAS not petrol.

Any ideas??

Ben


Yeh mate, also check the lockoff like mentioned before. If your system is ages old too, your converter may need a little bit of overhauling

 

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